PFHA Other Modalities Policy (Discussion)

Kerry W · PFHA Other Modalities Policy (Discussion)

Here is a link to the Other Modalities Policy topic. You may not post to that thread, but please read the policy, and check that thread for updates that are specific to the policy. It's in the News Forum:

http://pasovoice.com/about1860.html

caliber

speechless to say the least............... does members counted ? are members fully aware of how the PFHA runs their business and treats the rules? wow! what a violation of the constitution! what a violation to everything in my opinion.

i call for an immediate evaluation of all those meetings... ASAP this is a serious matter if what I think was done.............

This is truly a public embarrassment.............. I am very upset..........and shock........real shock.................

BigJ

Here is everything in a nutshell. What happened, what went wrong, what could fix it, and why.

1. October 2008 Minutes to the Board of Directors Meeting
Dr. Margaret Fahringer moved; Gwyn Wright seconded: To accept the CONFEPASO Committee’s recommendation to accept a task force to study, review and develop an implementation program to issue a “Validation Certificate” to “diagonal” horses registered in any Accepted Registry for competition purposes only to be presented to the Board at the January 2009 meeting. Motion passed unanimously.

Dr. Jose Laracuente, Alex Amador, Mary Emmons and Dr. Margaret Fahringer will be on the Task Force.

2. The unofficial BOD October 2008 minutes to the meeting were incomplete as published at http://www.pfha.org . The following was taken from various delegate reports also available at http://www.pfha.org for members only:

The task force formed in October 2008 was charged with reviewing the options while not going against the PFHA Rule Book.. Yet a motion was made to accept the CONFEPASO Committee's recommendation to accept a task force to study, review and develop an implementation program to issue a "Validation Certificate" to "diagonal" horses registered in any Accepted Registry for competition purposes only to be presented to the Board at the January 2009 meeting. The motion passed.

3. January 2009 Minutes to the Board of Directors Meeting
CONFEPASO – ATTA is the only US registry to accept diagonals. After several motions, a motion was made to approve a policy to allow other Paso modalities with a Show Validation Certificate. Motion passed.

4. The unofficial BOD January 2009 minutes to the meeting were incomplete as published at http://www.pfha.org . The following was taken from various delegate reports also available at http://www.pfha.org for members only:

a. As I stated in my October 2008 report, the Board voted to have a task force look at options for providing a validation certificate to diagonal or “other” Paso modalities as well as options for allowing regions to offer these classes under PFHA rules and regulations. The task force came back with a Board policy that included three significant things: 1) a validation certificate (and process) that states the horse is registered with a recognized registry 2) class rules and procedures when regions choose to offer the classes (9 total) and 3) inclusion of the 9 classes at the PFHA Grand National Show. In the course of Board discussion, the wording regarding inclusion in the Grand National Show was changed to “may be”. This Board policy passed. However, prior to voting on the policy, it was determined by the Parliamentarian that the Board first vote to “suspend the PFHA rules as they pertain to other Paso modalities.” This motion passed as well.

b. CONFEPASO Committee- A motion was passed to suspend PFHA rules as they relate to showing other Paso modalities and authorize the PFHA Board to adopt board policy to permit other Paso modalities to be shown at PFHA shows.A motion was then passed that the Board of Directors approves the Policy on Other Paso Modalities as recommended by the CONFEPASO Committee with immediate implementation.

c. • Motion passed by 87.6% to allow classes for the other Paso modalities (Trocha, Trote y Galope, and Trocha y Galope) to be included in our shows. Regions have the option to include or not to include any or all of the following nine classes.
1. Trocha—Stallions and colts
2. Trocha—Mares and fillies
3. Trocha—Geldings
4. Trote y Galope—Stallions and colts
5. Trote y Galope—Mares and fillies
6. Trote y Galope—Geldings
7. Trocha y Galope—Stallions and colts
8. Trocha y Galope—Mares and fillies
9. Trocha y Galope—Geldings
• The committee recommended that the rules governing the other modalities would not be included in the current PFHA rule book. Rather, the committee submitted the rules in a policy format to the PFHA Board of Directors. Dr. Laracuente explained we needed to explore whether there is an interest in the USA for showing the other modalities. In order for a horse to show, they must be registered in one of the recognized registries and provide a certificate that validates the registration. The horses would not be registered in PFHA. A horse registered in the PFHA registry could compete in one of the other modality classes. At the next judges clinic, there will be a session on how to judge the other modalities. There are currently 54 PFHA judges. Seven (7) are certified in the other modalities.

The Problem:

a. The CONFEPASO Committee actions are null and void until the PFHA Constitution is amended.
i. The PFHA Constitution does not include a “standing committee”, the CONFEPASO Committee.
ii. The CONFEPASO Committee members are not representative of all interested parties within the membership.
iii. The task force members were the same members as the CONFEPASO Committee.
iv. Neither committee served the membership as directed, which was to follow PFHA rules.
v. The goals of the CONFEPASO Committee are no longer in keeping with the PFHA Constitution.

b. The published official BOD minutes are incomplete.
i. No document of the recommendation from the CONFEPASO Committee was attached.
ii. No proceedings were included.
iii. No reports from recognized standing committees were attached.
iv. No roll call motions passing by vote were recorded for the January 2009 BOD meeting. It was not noted if the motion passed unanimously or not.

c. The other paso modalities were not explained, described, or defined for consideration as an amendment to the PFHA Constitution.

d. The motion made by the Parliamentarian that the Board first vote to “suspend the PFHA rules as they pertain to other Paso modalities.” is null and void by violating the PFHA Constitution.

e. The motion passed to approve a policy is out of order is null and void.
i. The policy cannot be received since it originated from a standing committee without authority.
ii. The motion to adopt the policy goes against the BOD directive to “not go against the PFHA Rule Book”. The task force did not follow the BOD directive.
iii. The motion violates the PFHA Constitution by not protecting the rights of absentees or individual members through proper notice.

The Solution:

a. The CONFEPASO Committee actions are null and void until the PFHA Constitution is amended.
i. Amend the PFHA Constitution as described which is:
Step 1. Give at least 30 days notice prior to a General Membership meeting.
Step 2. 2/3 majority of members vote in favor of creating the CONFEPASO Committee.
ii. Appoint members to a committee who represent all the important factions in the organization.
iii. Separate out the duties and roles of standing committees and temporary ad hoc committees.
iv. Redefine the roles of the CONFEPASO Committee to answer to the general membership and provide the mechanism for the committee to have standing authority to act for the general membership.
v. Redefine the goals of the CONFEPASO Committee to center on the mission and charter of the Paso Fino Horse Association, Inc.

b. According to Robert’s Rules of Order Newly Revised, 10th edition: When minutes are to be published, they should contain a list of the speakers on each side and the proceedings of each speech in addition to what was done in the meetings. Reports of committees should be printed exactly as submitted, the minutes showing what action was taken by the membership in regard to them. The secretary should have an assistant such as a stenographer or recording technician.

c. The PFHA Constitution provides all the terms and descriptions of the gaits recognized by the organization. To add more gaits than defined or recognized requires an amendment to the bylaws.
Step 1. Give at least 30 days notice prior to a General Membership meeting.
Step 2. 2/3 majority of members vote in favor of recognizing other gaits performed.

d. Rise to a Point Of Order stating motion made by the parliamentarian violates the PFHA Constitution. Any secondary motions made are also in violation of the PFHA Constitution. The motion to suspend the PFHA Constitution as they pertain to modalities was not included in the notice of that meeting. PFHA Constitution amendments require previous notice and publication in the call of the meeting at which they are to be considered, therefore the point is the motion to suspend the PFHA rules is null and void.

e. Rise to a Point Of Order stating the policy reported in the minutes as adopted for January 2009 BOD meeting was not included in the notice of that meeting. PFHA Constitution amendments require previous notice and publication in the call of the meeting at which they are to be considered, therefore the point is the action taken to adopt the policy is null and void.

The Reason:
The nature of bylaws is sufficient to establish a contract between members and define their rights, duties, and mutual obligations. Bylaws contain substantive rules relating to the rights of members whether they are present in meetings or not. The bylaws detail the extent to which the management of the organization's business is handled by the membership, a subordinate board, or an executive committee.

The hierarchy of the PFHA organization makes the Executive Director subordinate to the Executive Committee subordinate to the Board of Directors subordinate to the General Membership. The PFHA Constitution comprises the fundamental rules which define the organization whereby the general membership is the supreme deliberative assembly of the organization.

Two-thirds majority vote requirement to amend the constitution is designed to protect the rights of absentees and the minority one-third of the membership (the large minority). The PFHA Constitution implements the protection of the minority and those absent by requiring two-thirds vote to amend its constitution.

While the PFHA constitution does not provide guidance to recording meetings or the distribution of meeting minutes, the organization has a long-standing history of publishing the PFHA BOD minutes in a medium that is made public to a general audience not just to members only. As long as this procedure is desired and used by the general membership, the organization should take advantage of every available means to guarantee the minutes are published in full. To further clarify, it may be in the members’ best interest to consider adopting language that states the minutes are to be published for general readership, in what media format, and when.

At first appearances the BOD made two motions contradictory in nature; however, it is not against the bylaws to charge a committee to follow the organization’s rules while it investigates a proposal that seemingly goes against those bylaws. It is not against the bylaws to consider recommendations, debate, or make any motions against the bylaws as long as the BOD follows the bylaws of its organizaton. In other words if the BOD is following the PFHA Constitution, any committee report received that is against bylaws would be amended to follow those bylaws before put to vote or would be noticed to the general membership and voted as an amendment by two-thirds majority as stated in the bylaws. The BOD cannot suspend the bylaws without notice to the members and without a two-thirds majority vote by the membership. Any motion made that is against the bylaws should be corrected, amended or rescinded. Any motion passed that violates the bylaws is null and void.

The Point Of Order is made for the purpose of enforcing rules when an infraction has occurred. It must be made immediately when an error has been made before the next item of business is introduced EXCEPT when there is a continuing breach of the rules. When a violation occurs that involves an adoption that violates the bylaws, a Point of Order can be raised at any time.

The motion made by the parliamentarian is explicitly against the PFHA Constitution, which allows only for Robert’s Rules of Order to be suspended without notice at a BOD meeting and passed by two-thirds majority. The motion by the parliamentarian opened the floor to receive and adopt a policy that also violates the PFHA Constitution. Since the policy as adopted continues a breach of the PFHA Constitution by giving no notice in a publication to members to be voted on, a Point Of Order can be made at any time.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Caliber, something can be done. As members of PFHA you and I are required to follow the rules, so why isn't the BOD?

The questions I pose to PFHA members are: Are you willing to once again allow your delegates, your elected officials to make a mockery out of the PFHA Constitution? Are you willing to sit around and complain or do you want to correct the problem?

As one member, I intend to do something. I can make a difference and I intend to.

caliber

Kerry W

For me, this isn't even about the other modalities...it's about the circumstances surrounding the policy itself. This was no emergency, and what will it be next time (and there WILL be a next time)? Suspension of the rules should never happen. What do we have, as an association? We have a constitution and rules. Without those, we have no credibility. We're not some fledgling group seeking recognition as a legitimate entity, but you'd never know it by looking at our behavior, and this particular behavior would not encourage anyone to look at PFHA as a "legitimate" organization. Something of this magnitude, should be decided by the membership as a whole. Instead, it was decided during a meeting where input from the general membership is forbidden.

If, as I read over and over and over again, this had nothing to do with the CONFEPASO seat, why was it the CONFEPASO Committee (who also served as the "task force"), the one charged with creating this policy? Why not just be honest about it? I can think of no other reason to adopt this policy, that would force us to rush it through in this manner. There is not enough money in the Validation Certificates, and required memberships to violate the constitution of this organization, and alienate a good portion of current members over this. Most of those with diagonals are already PFHA members. So who did the math (for the association) on this thing and decided it was "worth it", assuming that seat doesn't factor into the equation, as we are expected to believe?

As far as ATTA goes...I don't see why they'd support this policy at all. They will be turning over their identity to PFHA. Forced into alliance and membership with an association that has always been hostile toward them. There had to be a better way to do this. A way that everyone can keep their dignity, and respect for the breed as a whole. I don't feel like that has been the priority here, and I'm greatly disappointed over the whole ordeal. I honestly see no reason to be part of an organization that has no respect for it's members, its rules, its constitution or the very breed it is supposed to represent. They wonder why we are apathetic. They wonder why we don't renew. I don't know of many people who wish to pay for the privelege of being disrespected. Have we become so obsessed with validation by other countries/associations, that we have lost the validation of our own membership? Can no one see that without that, we are suffering, and will continue to suffer? If those other associations respect us for conducting business in this manner, are they worthy of our respect?

Membership Committe: Where's the mystery? New memberships are free, and renewals are not a top priority.

Communications Committee: Not necessary. Communication with members is problematic all the way around.

Computer Operations: They work hand in hand with the Communications Committee, and they'll look a little silly holding their own hand, so: see Communications Committee

Rules Committee: Were they even at the BOD meeting, or were they on potty break when the motion was made to suspend the rules? Besides...we don't need to worry with that Rules Change Proposal mess, we can just do policies from now on!! woo

CONFEPASO Committee: We don't really care what CONFEPASO thinks (right????), and the goal to educate the membership? See Communications/Computer Operation Committees

Way I see it, if we shave off a few of these committees, we can save a few bucks and cut the time of the meetings significantly, which will make for a more pleasant experience for all. Very Happy

caliber

I will call for immediate action from PFHA.... this is no joke! this is a public embarrassment.............

Moniece

OMG!! This information needs to be given/told to every PFHA member!! This is unexceptable and unexcusable!! WOW!!

loriperez

Hello everyone. I would like to ask the following: Is is the way it was handled that is so upseting and shocking or the fact that they are now acknowledging all the modalities? (Kerry I agree with many of the items you talk about in your post).

Kerry W

Yes, Lori...the way it was handled. That is the issue here. The only reason that the issue of the other modalities IS an issue, is because this is a major step for PFHA to take...it wasn't a tack change, or an inclusion of a new trail program...and this major step was taken with no general membership input.

I personally have no problem with sharing the shows with the other modalities. I'd rather see ATTA keep their own points, give their own awards, based on THEIR knowledge of the other modalities. So it isn't about the other modalities for me personally, and I'd rather it didn't dissolve into that. We're past that point in history...I hope! Very Happy

caliber

Lori! I agree 100% with what Kerry said............ is not the modality, is the way that it was handle that in my opinion violated each and every member of this association rights.

This association can no longer perform business as usual...... THEY must respect RULES/BYLAWS and CONSTITUTION, but most importantly the integrity of all members and our breed. The BOD must and I say must correct their wrongs...........I will say it again! THIS is a humiliation to all members, Pfha and the breed in this country.... SHAME ON THEM!

BigJ

Good question Lori because PFHA tries to moderate members' understandings of issues by lack of information.

On the surface it would appear the "issue" is about modality. However, let me ask you this: If you were the owner of Trochadors and Trotons and found out that the task force committee that did the investigation only owned Paso Fino horses, just how much trust would you place in their recommendations? Why didn't the task force, charged with: 1. following PFHA rules and 2. investigation recommendations for diagonal modalities didn't 1. follow PFHA rules and 2. encompass PFHA owners that were knowledgeable breeders and owners of diagonal horses? It is not necessary for a task force to be composed of only members of an organization. Why not have ATTA represented to ensure good relations and recommendations? Why not have some of the world class Troton breeders and trainers in the USA participate?

As a breeder of paso fino horses it would be an affront to my senses to have diagonal breeders recommend how paso fino horses were to be incorporated into a diagonal registry. It would be obvious to me that paso fino breeders have a better understanding of what paso fino is, what the gait is, what the horse is.

The issue has always been about procedure, about membership inclusion, about transparency, about representation. Do you honestly feel that the members of the task force committee did their best to include the perspectives of breeders of diagonal modalities in the best interest of the breed? The mission of the Paso Fino Horse Association, Inc. is to promote Paso Fino. That mission has not changed so how would diagonal breeders and their horses fit in? As equals? Again, if I were a diagonal breeder I would most definitely ask these questions. The benefit of exposure at ONE national show is not worth the risk of taking a back seat to paso finos.

I also question why is it that the diagonal modalities were singled out for this? PFHA has a long history of having paso fino classes at shows that included many other breeds. Granted other breeds are not present for our National Show, but to what advantage does having diagonal classes at a PFHA national show afford to diagonal breeders?

Frankly, it is a shame that once again, members chose to focus on the wrong issue, which is about the paso breed instead of the real issue which is about how the PFHA Executive Committee, our elected officials, and the PFHA BOD, our delegates, are representing the members and following the bylaws. And I do mean ALL members and ALL of their horses.

If the members chose to include Quarter Horses as part of the registry then that is their prerogative as long as the procedure to change the bylaws to include Quarter Horses is followed. In that way it can be assured that the members know what Quarter Horses are, they respect them, they want them, and they will protect the Quarter Horse's interest. I would not want my Quarter Horses incorporated into an organization that gave them lip-service just to get into my pocket book. The horses deserve better respect than that.

When a 2/3 majority vote passes to incorporate Quarter Horses then as a Quarter Horse breeder, I know the breed will be protected. 2/3 majority vote includes the voice of the minority and protects those absent. 2/3 majority means: 2/3 of those PRESENT and it normally refers to a general assembly not to 12-15 people representing 4000.

As long as PFHA members choose not to demand their organization to follow their own bylaws, the hard, complex issues will never be resolved to the satisfaction of anyone.

I've given the reasons why the policy is a problem and what can be done to resolve it. If PFHA does not believe in its members by keeping them ignorant of issues and members cannot trust PFHA to follow the bylaws, does it really matter if is about modality or not? Frankly would anyone with a diagonal horse really want to be a part of an organization like that?

Well, if I had a choice about joining an organization like PFHA or one like ATTA that has always promoted, embraced, encouraged, educated its members about diagonals; no contest. But hey, maybe exposure at Perry, GA or traveling all the way up to Kentucky for a couple of classes is worth the risk.

Moniece

VERY well said Big J and I agree 100%!! Your friend,Moniece

pasosx3

I've tried to stay silent lately and just focus on enjoying my wonderful Trote y Galope, Trocha Pura and Paso Fino horses. I feel like I have already said, on other Threads (here) and on other Forums, all that I have to say on the Topic.

I feel somewhat validated, however, when I read BigJ, Caliber, Kerry W and Moniece's posts because I have felt, said, and written practically all of those things myself at one time or another! And, I have said them to Leaders in PFHA and to Leaders in ATTA.

My personal solution was to not renew my Membership to PFHA. I have also decided not to purchase any Show Validation Certificates for my diagonal horses, either. I just can not support with my dollars an organization that violates its own By-Laws, whose Leadership does not communicate openly with its membership and whose Leadership publicly states one thing but privately states something else. (I am referring to the Confepaso Seat).

What I do not understand is why the current Members of PFHA think this is acceptable? But, what re-course do the Members have? I have no idea....

pasosx3 · Diagonals Advertising in PFHA Horse World Magazine

Here is a related subject to the whole Validation Certificate issue. The Owners of Diagonal horses who want to show and purchase a Validation Certificate are REQUIRED to join PFHA.

I asked this Question of my (former) PFHA Delegate (I am no longer a Member of PFHA): Will the Diagonal Owners be able to purchase Advertising Space in the PFHA Horse World Magazine???? And, will there be Articles in the PFHA Horse World Magazine about the Show Results for the Diagonals as well as other Articles of interest to Diagonal horses?

The answer I got was: No. Current Policy does not allow Diagonals to be advertised in the Magazine and the BOD has not discussed changing that position.

So....if Diagonal Paso horse owners are REQUIRED to be Members of PFHA, where is their Representation in the Organization of which they are now Full Fledged Members???

Something to think about....

Kerry W

Becky...sorry so slow with my response to both of your posts. To be honest, I've just about given up with any and all associations involved with this breed. Every one I look at...same shit. It's all about making money today, and not worrying about the future of the horses.

I don't blame you for not buying into the Certificate crap...and that's how I look at it. As crap. If they can whip up this policy today, they can do away with it tomorrow. It was a way for them to come up with some quick cash, and keep that seat, because at some point in the future, La Mundial will be in the US, and they don't want to share the cash cow with ATTA...that's the "BIG PICTURE" here...it's that seat. Someone stands to make a ton of money from it...and not PFHA. It was never about helping the diagonals, or ATTA...never will be.

I've just had it. When do the horses become a priority? Only in our own back yards. Oh sure, there are some really great people neck deep in PFHA...but they're swimming upstream. They can't put up too much fuss, because they eat from the breed...and I understand that...but keeping your head down, and quietly campaigning, doesn't really get much accomplished when a few are so brazen in their manipulation of this organization. It's ugly, it's not fun anymore.

I think over the past 2 years, I've seen more people leave PFHA, than ever before. They just keep doing what they're doing, with the same result. Drive people away. I don't know what happened to our new President. He sounded good on the videos...but so far, I'm unimpressed. Where is he? Who IS leading PFHA?

loriperez

Oh Becky, Please say it ain't so! I am really ticked off bad right about now. In reference to the PFHA magazine advertising and results, etc. That is a just not acceptable. If they want ATTA members and other diagonal horse owners to become members of PFHA, pay the same entry fees, stall fees, etc. PLUS have their registration (which is already validated by another association) validated at a fee of $125...for competition purposes...Yet they don't want the diagonal horse owners to PAY them to advertise (in a magazine that surely could use all the advertisers they can get right now)?!?@!@WOW. And, what an insult. To report the results of a show, lets say the nationals, but not mention anything about all the diagonal horses in the results issue of the magazine?!?! (Oops like they did for the Mundial) Well they can just unwrite that policy just like they wrote this new policy. It was never a membership vote to exclude advertising or mentioning of the diagonal Paso it was an executive committee that put it through.

Do you know who in PFHA gave that answer. I would really like to know so I may personally call them to advise them that ATTA is going to have a meeting regarding this issue and present it in our Newsletter for further comment and discussion by our members. I want to make sure that if this is true our members know about it. Thanks, Lori

ATTA Board Member

Kerry W

There was no membership vote or even input about any of this Lori. I don't know...maybe that was the idea. To make it so unattractive, no one would get the certificates. Then they could go to CONFEPASO, and claim they offered, and no one took them up on it.

pasosx3

Here is a copy of an e-mail conversation with a PFHA Delegate. She was, I think, honest and polite in her answers. But, it seems like the Issue has not been addressed by the BOD of PFHA yet. Has anyone else heard otherwise?

Here's the correspondence:

From: Rebecca Anderson
Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 1:11 PM
To: Elizabeth Arledge
Subject: Question Re: PFHW Mag

Hi Elizabeth,

I wasn't sure who to ask this question of but you have been so helpful and informative in the past, I thought you might be able to help me.

Will PFHW Magazine allow the Diagonal Paso Horses to be advertised? If I am correct, in the past, this was not allowed. Do you know if this has changed?

Thank you.

Best Regards,
Becky Anderson

From: Elizabeth Arledge
Subject: RE: Question Re: PFHW Mag
To: "'Rebecca Anderson'
Date: Thursday, May 7, 2009, 8:17 PM
Rebecca,
You are welcome to contact me anytime with PFHA questions.
The Board has not discussed this specific issue and as such, the board policy has not been changed. At this point, I don’t believe the diagonal horses will be advertising in the magazine. If I hear otherwise, I will let you know.
Elizabeth

From: Rebecca Anderson
Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 8:45 PM
To: Elizabeth Arledge
Subject: RE: Question Re: PFHW Mag

Thank you, Elizabeth . Yes, please let me know if this is discussed at the Board level and if there is a change of policy.

Thanks again.

Best Regards,
Becky

To: "'Rebecca Anderson'
Date: Friday, May 8, 2009, 8:29 PM
Rebecca,
What are your feelings on the subject? I would like to have input from the members so I can represent your interests.
Thanks
elizabeth

From: Rebecca Anderson
Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 11:27:52 -0700 (PDT)
To: Elizabeth Arledge
Subject: RE: Question Re: PFHW Mag
Hi Elizabeth,

Sorry for not getting back to you sooner, I've been away from my computer. I hope you had a nice weekend.

Thank you for asking me for my input on the topic of the diagonal paso horses and advertising in the PFHA PFHW Magazine. To be perfectly honest with you, I have mixed feelings about it.

But, if I had to give an opinion, which is what you are asking for, I guess I would have to say that yes, I think it is fine to allow the diagonal paso horses to be advertised in the PFHW Magazine. And, here is my reasoning on the matter:

I am reminded of a story I heard a long time ago and it goes something like this: A man goes to a swanky cocktail party where he meets a beautiful woman and they spend a great deal of time talking. Finally, he asks the woman, "If I gave you 5 million dollars, would you sleep with me?" The woman thinks for a moment and says "Yes, for 5 million dollars I will sleep with you". Then the man says to her, "Will you sleep with me for 20 dollars?" She gets huffy and mad and says to him "What do you think I am, a prostitute?" And, he looks her in the eye and says, "Well, we've already established that, I'm just trying to find out your price".

And, that is how I view the whole situation with PFHA and Confepaso. The 2 motivating reasons for PFHA to do what it has done regarding the diagonal paso horses is 1). to generate income for the Association and 2). to maintain both Delegate Seats with Confepaso.

Let me first remind you that I have never supported the issue of PFHA offering Validation Certificates or Classes at PFHA Shows with PFHA maintaining the points, etc. The reason I have not supported it is not because I don't love the diagonal paso horses, I do, but the reason is because I think it violates the Mission and Purpose of the PFHA. I also do not support it because I don't believe the majority of PFHA Members support it either and I think it has been done in a way that violates the Rules and Bylaws and the integrity of the organization. (I would have liked to have seen a "1 member, 1 vote referendum" on the issue).

However, since the PFHA has "opened the window" to the diagonal paso horses and decided to go ahead with offering the Validation Certificates and offer Show Classes, then why not allow the diagonal paso horse owners to advertise in the PFHA PFHW Magazine? The diagonal paso horse owners are being required to join the PFHA so why not allow them to advertise and thereby add to the revenues of the Association? Like I said, the window has been opened so why not just open the doors, too?

Elizabeth, I must say, it dismays me to read your response to my initial inquiry where you write "the Board has not discussed this yet...". I am dismayed because it underscores how little thought, in my opinion, the Leadership has put into this whole situation. It reveals how decisions are hastily being made which are for short-term gain without fully thinking through all of the ramifications of these decisions. My next inquiry is whether articles on diagonal paso horses will be allowed in the Magazine or whether information on the Point Standings and Championship Titles of the diagonals will be written up in the Magazine, etc. Remember, the diagonal paso horse owners are being required to join PFHA in order to Show their horses, so I think it is reasonable that as members of the Association, that they get representation in "their" magazine. (Personally, I was very surprised when I read that diagonal paso horse owners we would be required to join PFHA. I have no idea why a Paso Fino organization would want diagonal paso horse owners as full members. What if the numbers of diagonal members became substantial? What if there was a shift of power? But, then again, I keep forgetting, the reasons are to increase revenues for the PFHA).

So, again, to re-iterate, since money is a prime motivation in all of this, then to be consistent, let the diagonals advertise in the Magazine. It will certainly add to the bottom line of the Organization.

Thank you for allowing me to respond. If my reply to you sounds as though I am frustrated, it is because I am frustrated. I feel like I don't know "who" PFHA is anymore....

If you would like to discuss this further, then please don't hesitate to contact me.

Best regards,
Becky Anderson

To: Rebecca Anderson
From : Elizabeth Arledge
Rebecca,
Thanks for the reply. I agree with you, completely, that as an organization, we have not fully reviewed the pros and cons of the diagonal decision.
I have voiced that concern myself.
I will continue to push, at the board level, more strategic research before these decisions are made (on any topic).
I believe you are the voice of many when you say you don't know who PFHA is at the moment. It is not necessarily a bad thing for an organization to go through a transition, but I do think it comes back down to careful research and analysis, good member communication, and finally, member decision-making. I will continue to do what I can.
Thanks again for your comments and feel free to voice your concerns (or likes) to me in the future. Member involvement is very important.
Elizabeth

dcancel

Quote:
The committee recommended that the rules governing the other modalities would not be included in the current PFHA rule book. Rather, the committee submitted the rules in a policy format to the PFHA Board of Directors. Dr. Laracuente explained we needed to explore whether there is an interest in the USA for showing the other modalities. In order for a horse to show, they must be registered in one of the recognized registries and provide a certificate that validates the registration. The horses would not be registered in PFHA. A horse registered in the PFHA registry could compete in one of the other modality classes. At the next judges clinic, there will be a session on how to judge the other modalities. There are currently 54 PFHA judges. Seven (7) are certified in the other modalities.

I think that sentence in bold is quite interesting, is this just a way to justify moving all these horse that can not maintain the Paso Fino gait and have more diagonal tendencies into those catergories....

Kerry W

Denisse, I have not heard back on how they are going to handle PFHA registered horses, in regards to this policy. I honestly don't see how you can tell the world you are a diagonal, and still maintain your registration, UNLESS...PFHA adopts the Fedequinas way of registering horses, allowing them to change their modality as they mature. What are our papers worth, if they allow diagonals to keep their registration, as far as how PFHA defines itself as a breed organization?

Great letters Becky! Thank you so much for sharing. You're dead on when you say it was not thought out. Many issues were not addressed. They may be "non issues", but then again, they may become issues later. Issues like the one above, and also, what other programs are the diagonals allowed to participate in, since the owners are now PFHA members?

Lots of questions...and all is quiet on the PFHA front.

loriperez

caliber

Hola Lori,

I have a question for you, is ATTA in all agreeing with everything PFHA is trying to make out of this breed in this country?

Is Confepaso aware of HOW PFHA IS CONDUCTING BUSINESS? I think is of great importance and of great concerns........ to assure the protection and representation of this breed (WORLWIDE)

Again! I speak with great pain and embarrassment ...... The PFHA should at all times PROTECT this breed and everyone who has invested ONE PENNY in it! Not manipulate the RULES...... at their convenience without any information nor members awareness! SHAME on them! and I mean , "THE ENTIRE PFHA B.O.D, DELEGATES and EXECUTIVES!

This is a true mess! G-D help them Shocked

loriperez

No but we had no control over it either. They have the power to do it as they see fit. They did not need to get permission from ATTA. We ARE working in assisting in any way we can to accomodate our members who WISH to participate. I hope that it is not being done for the wrong reasons by anyone in PFHA (such as to prove to Confepaso that they tried, like what Kerry said above). I surely do hope it is for the reason of progress and for the promotion of the horse.

caliber

Lori! Good intentions are worked TRANSPARENTLY! anything that is not transparent is the first sign of not so good intentions!

The President of ATTA should bring this up with Confepaso! The PFHA has acted "not in good faith" and is obvious!

Suspending our RULES to add a POLICY! is that legal?

loriperez

I can't answer either of those questions. Can we say for certain that PFHA has broken any rules? I am going to be in touch with PFHA regarding this whole issue about not representing the diagonals in the magazine. What's fair is fair. I can't imagine what possible answer they would have for not doing it. After all these horse are now owned by PFHA members who are paying the same fees to show their horses, so why can't they be made mention of.

I am going to ask Carlos Tobon (ATTA president) to take a look into this also.

pasosx3

caliber

pasosx3

Lori: Anything to report to us on this front?

BigJ

Yes, PFHA broke rules:

1. When the parliamentarian recommended that the BOD ignore the by-laws concerning modality.

2. When the BOD did not follow the constitution concerning by-law amendment.

3. When the recommendation to adopt the policy came from an unconstitutionally formed committee: the CONFEPASO committee.

Section 8. Rules of Order. All meetings of this Association shall be governed by and shall be conducted according to the current edition of Robert’s Rules of Order Newly Revised. In the event of any
conflict or inconsistency between the Constitution and Robert’s
Rules, the Constitution and Association Rules shall apply. The Board
of Directors, by a seventy-five percent (75%) majority of those
present and entitled to vote may suspend the operation of Robert’s Rules for any meeting or portion thereof.

Plain and simple. It says in plain language that all meetings are to follow the constitution. Our PFHA parliamentarian recommended that the BOD suspend the by-laws for that meeting.

Take a look at the PFHA rules and do a search for gait. Gait is described in Article II of the Constitution. In the same Article is says

Section 1. Objectives. The objectives of the Association shall
include, but not be limited to:
A. The public education concerning and the promotion of the
Paso Fino horse and the Association;
B. The maintenance and preservation of the Registry of the Paso
Fino Horse Association;
C. The regulation of any and all matters relating to the breeding,
exhibition, promotion or improvements of the Paso Fino horse;
D. The maintenance of the Paso Fino Breed Standard.

What is the breed standard? Well, that is that is the next section where the horse and the gaits are described.

L. Gait: The gait of the Paso Fino horse is totally natural and
normally exhibited from birth. It is an evenly spaced, four-beat lateral
gait with each foot contacting the ground independently in a regular
sequence at precise intervals creating a rapid, unbroken rhythm.
Executed perfectly, the four hoof beats are absolutely even in both
cadence and impact. Footfall is in the same sequence as a natural
equine walk, i.e., left rear, left fore, right rear, right fore. Propulsion is
primarily from the hind limbs and the horse’s motion is absorbed in
its back and loins, resulting in unequaled smoothness and comfort
for the rider. The Paso Fino gait is performed at three (3) forward
speeds and with varying degrees of collection. In all speeds of the
gait, the rider should appear virtually motionless in the saddle and
there should be no perceptible up and down motion of the horse’s
croup. (See Chapter Three for complete description of gaits.)
Classic Fino: Forward speed is very slow, and the footfall is
extremely rapid while the steps and extension are exceedingly short.
This gait is to be executed fully collected.
Paso Corto: Forward speed is moderate, ground covering but
unhurried, executed with medium extension and stride. The degree
of collection desired varies with class requirements.
Paso Largo: The fastest speed of the gait. The largo is
executed with a longer extension and stride. Forward speed varies
with the individual horse, since each horse should attain its top
speed in harmony with its own natural stride and cadence. The
degree of collection desired varies with class requirements.
The Paso Fino can execute other gaits natural to horses in
addition to the Paso Fino gait.
Walk: Smooth, steady, evenly spaced four-beat gait.
Lope: True three-beat gait, slow, cadenced, smooth, straight
on both leads, with no tendency to mix gaits.
Canter: True three-beat gait, straight on both leads, smooth
and unhurried with no tendency to mix gaits.

I've looked for years and can't find one instance where the words: troton, trote y galope, trocha or trochador occur. The word "trot" has never been printed in the PFHA Constitution or rule book.

Maybe that is splitting hairs but let's go on.

There are 18 committees: I want go through listiing them all but not one of the committees in the PFHA constitution is the CONFESPASO committee. PFHA has set a precedence in the recent years about how committees are created. If I remember correctly a new committee was proposed, presented to the general membership, the proposal voted down and no new committee formed. Yet PFHA BOD has formed and recognizes a committee that did not follow this procedure. So I guess rules are made up and broken at will. Since PFHA adopted Robert's Rules of Order as the procedure to follow, it has again broken its own by-laws and the CONFEPASO committee is unconstitutional.

How is the constitution changed? This may be news to our BOD but there is a procedure to follow.

ARTICLE XI
(Amendments)
Section 1. At Regular Meetings. The Constitution may be amended
at any meeting of the Association provided that:
A. Notice of intention to amend the Constitution shall first be
published in the official Association publication or mailed to the
member-ship at least 30 days prior to the convening of the meeting
at which the amendment shall occur; and
B. Such notice shall contain the content of each proposed
amendment and state its purpose and intent; and
C. A two-thirds (2/3) majority of Association voting members of
those present, in person, or by representation, shall vote in favor of
such amendment.
Section 2. At Special Meetings. Special meetings to consider
Constitutional Amendments may be called by:
A. Written petition signed by a majority of the Board; or
B. Written petition signed by current voting members in good
standing constitution at least thirty-percent (30%) of the total voting
membership.

And for good measure just in case everyone is thinking I'm making a big deal about this CONFEPASO committee:

ARTICLE XIV
(Conflict)
Section 1. Repeal. The adoption hereof of this Constitution shall
constitute a repeal of all documents purporting to be Constitutions of
this Association and this Constitution shall supersede all others.
Section 2. Rules in Conflict. All rules or regulations in conflict
herewith shall be considered void for all intents and purposes.

That means if there is a conflict such as a committee existing that is not in the constitution, that committee is now void since it is conflict with how PFHA proceeds to create committees. So even if that committee was in a previous PFHA constitution, it ain't now and this one supersedes all others.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Why not just pretend this policy is all above board? Let's just say there is no CONFEPASO, there is no history concerning modality, that the diagonal horses are fully embraced and welcomed.

Read the policy in that light and see how you feel about. To me, even under the best of circumstances, the policy is prejudicial, biased and unbalanced. It says the diagonals are still not recognized in the registry, still cannot participate like paso finos, and will not be promoted or marketed by any official media venue by the very association that requires horse owners to join and follow the rules. What happened to the organization's obligations to follow its own rules? If a person is coerced into membership shouldn't the organization be duty bound to serve that member? If the organization purposefully recruits diagonal horse owners as members, should they not be served too and the horses recognized and registered as a service?

After all the first page of the PFHA rule books says:

...to maintain the integrity of the Registry of the PFHA.

So PFHA says it wants to take credit for serving diagonal horses without any obligations to actual do so except give a little space in a show schedule. It wants to force people into paying a membership without any responsibility to serve that member. It wants to dictate only certain rules but not all rules to some members and then other rules to the rest of members.

How do you think I feel as a paso fino owner that no favored rules are made up for my horses in order to show? Gee, just show up with a paid certificate and wala! I can show unregistered. Isn't that what PFHA is doing for diagonals? Why then should I have to pay over $400 to register a mature horse when all I need to do is pay $125 to show all year? It is unfair to paso fino owners with unregistered PFHA horses. I think paso finos that PFHA refuses to register, like the diagonals, should be allowed to get a certificate of validation too! Why should people importing paso finos be required to register horses in order to show? Who cares whether I advertise in PFHW or not. I've got many paso fino friends that would gladly pay for the certificate than be forced to pay thousands of dollars to register their mature pasos particularly since many are already registered elsewhere.

So, gee, does anyone still think this is just about how a horse moves?

If PFHA is allowed to think it can behave in this manner to one group of its members, what is to stop it from doing the same to other groups in the future?

I say it is time to think about this:

ARTICLE XII
(Existence)
Section 1. Dissolution. The membership may dissolve the
Association by vote at any meeting of the Association and the
procedure for doing so shall be the same as to amend the
Constitution.
Section 2. Assets. In the event of dissolution, it shall be resolved
that all assets of the Association shall be assigned transferred or set
over to a non-profit association with the same or similar objectives,
goals or purposes.
Section 3. Perpetual Existence. Unless dissolved, the Association
shall have perpetual existence.

And since all it takes is someone to recommend not to follow the constitutional procedure for amendments, I say at the October 2009 BOD meeting, we create a similar committee to the CONFEPASO committee and recommend in January 2010 to dissolve PFHA. Hey it only takes a couple of regions to do it since members "vote" according to the whim of one regional delegate. Wink

Hey they can't say we are "out of order" either. Not now, Thank you PFHA Board of Directors. I feel empowered.

Kerry W

I think the BOD already dissolved PFHA. They don't want to think about the constitution, if it's in the way...so there is no need to even have one, and without one...no organization exists. None that I can support.

I'm loving what they're doing now. Planning to survey the members about PFHA services. Surveying members about whether or not the magazine subscription should be a requirement of membership. Important stuff! Too bad they didn't see the need to do a little survey about this whole "let's add diagonals" thingy. I guess they didn't think it was really as important as the magazine issue. Or maybe they figured we were too stupid to make an important decision like that. But now, they want to know how we feel. Rolling Eyes

I also love the push, push, push they are doing for the trail enthusiasts among us. Wow...isn't that awesome? Hardly any coverage in the magazine for shows nowadays...and the April BOD meeting was chock full of great ideas to reward people for trail riding. It's so nice of them to throw a bone to the #1 contingent who would oppose any association of PFHA with the diagonals, so they'll keep their heads down and their mouths shut. Again...they think we're so stupid we don't get what they're doing.

Is our BOD one who would intentionally betray our memembership, our constitution, our organization, our breed, or were they just plain ignorant in their actions when they violated all of the above? Either scenario begs for disassociation, as far as I'm concerned.

caliber

I couldnt agree more with you Kerry! The PFHA is HISTORY in my book! sad that after 37 years as part of this organization....... things are the way they are!

But! I will continue supporting this breed! our breed is strong! The PFHA is not! shame on the PFHA............... audit please......... Rolling Eyes

grif

WOW! Just wow. Incredible.

caliber

exactly what i say Cindy! glad to hear your acknowledgement on this matter!

grif

Actually my post was not about that.

The Professional

What is wrong it’s wrong, and PFHA BOD has to be more sincere about their intentions with the future of the breed, that is what is at balance at this moment. Ignoring the claim of formal members about a genuine concern is disrespectful. Plain as that.

Marleen Robinson

So, Cindy, I'll bite, what is your post about?

PFHA, what a disgrace to 'our breed'.
They (BOD) are biting themselves in the 'butt'. Soon, I hope, all members will see things for what PFHA are all about... the plain ole' ugly truth. Stop ruining this exeptional breed of horse with lies, deceit and whatever, for the Almighty Buck! I am so sick of this crap!!!!!!

Kerry W

Apparently you do not deserve an answer Marleen. None of us do. Ever. About anything. I intend to respond in kind when my membership renewal reminder arrives this fall.

Marleen Robinson

pasosx3 · comments/support to Big J

Candice: I have meant to comment on this many times. Your post is well written and well thought out and with good documentation. Thank you for taking the time to put it in writing for us.

As far as you know, are any PFHA members taking any action regarding the behavior of the PFHA BOD? The next meeting is just around the corner, in October, isn't it? I do feel that this issue is more than the "diagonal modality issue", it is very seriously about how PFHA Leadership treats it's members and more importantly, how it arrives at decisions. Thanks again.

wildflower

WOW, this is so bad, I am glad that I did not pay $125 to PFHA so that they can validate my Trot and Galop papers with ATTA which in my opinion is a scam to make money, it is all about money and no longer about the breed. Also the fact that we could not advertise the Trot Y Galop in PFHA magazine does not make sense, the magazine is down to nothing anyway
and they could use the extra income.

I am so happy that IPHF and ATTA have merge. I am taking my Trote Y Galope to the IPHF show in Miami Sept 4/6 and I am not going to the Nationals this year.

Jacky

Kerry W

What are members supposed to do? Ask for accountability by those who consciously made a choice to represent us? Been there, done that and still no answers. About all that is left is to leave. They just don't get it. I don't know if they ever did, or if they ever will. If protecting the breed is the priority, the rest will fall in place. It's never been that way, since I've been here. It's always been a game of follow the dollar, jerking the breed in all different directions, and no steps forward are ever taken. When integrity is absent, so will be supporters. That's why people come in, and leave so quickly. Not many can stomach an entity that doesn't follow it's own rules.

This one incident, is just that...one incident. We have rules that are broken regularly. Some are punished, and some are rewarded for their transgressions. Tails are cut...and they become champions. Champions are drugged, and a slap on the wrist is the punishment. Committee members attack a founding country in public...mad scramble to figure out how to protect them. BOD suspends rules, to approve a policy that violates those rules, no problema! Don't pay a fee to PFHA, and you are suspended. I'd say priorties are a more than a little messed up here, and I can't support that behavior. Fortunately, I don't need a membership card to appreciate the breed. I can see no benefit to having one in my wallet, and cannot in good conscience, tell a non member it's a good thing to be a part of.

If I thought it were fixable, I'd stay and work my ass off for it, but I just don't. There is too much wrong. Sometimes we just have to let go and make peace with the passing of a thing.

wildflower

We have been members of PFHA for almost 6 years now, only because I want to show my horses but lately my passion to take my horses to the show is fading. All I want and I am sure most of us want is go to the show with our horses and having them judge failry, it is all about the horses and not who the rider/trainer is or who has the most money or who knows who.
Then I read what you wrote about PFHA and it is disturbing.

I just don't know where this is going, what can we do to help as members to see that this does not continue?

Kerry W

All I can think to tell you, is to make your horses the priority...not the ribbon, or the breeding/sales contract that comes along with that. People do notice good horses, even if they don't win. You have to be satisfied with your own integrity, because it is not necessarily going to be rewarded, or even noted, by the association. Keep doing what you are doing...we all admire you! Very Happy

wildflower

Thank you for the answer. That is what we keep telling ourselves, our horses are good, I know it but it does take a toll after a while, I see my trainer and my horses work hard everyday and for them not to be recongnized in the show ring is difficult. I feel bad for my horses, my 4 year old fino colt was excused at the last show and my trainer found out why, we were told he was too slow which is crap.

So we are done this year as far as PFHA shows are concern.

I have no idea what will do next year, what I do know is that we are going to Miami next weekend to show my Trote Y Galope Bolero and have some fun at the IPHA-ATTA show and I am so looking forward to it.

Jacky Smile

Marleen Robinson

Jacky, I think I understand your frustration with PFHA. I have not been a member for many years now. I saw this coming a long time ago. They screwed me one too many times, to this day, I do not have papers on my colt, actually, gelding now, 13 years old Rolling Eyes

. Every time, in order to solve this 'problem', they wanted more money, another fee for this and that, enough, all they care about is money! All I care about is our breed! I love my horses, for what they are, Paso Finos. A proud breed, and I am mighty proud to have every single one in my barn. None are show horses, or breeding horses, at least not anymore. My sweet Momma is now 26. She is going to live out her days here, as are the others. Think PFHA cares about us rescueing the throwaways? NOT! They don't make them any money!!!
PFHA is going in ONE direction....DOWN! Maybe not today, or next month, year, whatever, but unless they change, more members are going to get fed up. Whatever happened to integrity, honesty, transparency, and most of all 'PRIDE'.
I don't care who reads this, PFHA probably will ban me, but I don't give a hoot. I am tired of this sh...

Sorry all, but I had to get that out!

Jacky, you and Bolero are awesome, so I wish you the best of luck next weekend! I hope to watch you on DirecTV!!!!!

PS, you know Bolero's got my heart Laughing

. His pic is hanging on my fridge Wink

wildflower

Thank you Marleen. It makes me happy to think that Bolero has fans out there, he is such a lovable horse and I am really excited to go show him off in Miami.
It is very unfortunate what is happening with PFHA, I hope they can get it togheter.

Jacky Smile

pasosx3

I wish no ill will towards PFHA. I just wish they would figure out "who" they want to be. If they want to be only about Paso Finos in this country then they need to re-dedicate them selves to that goal in a big way. If they want to embrace all of the paso modalities, then they need to dedicate themselves to that in a big way. So far, they are doing neither and what they are doing, they are doing pitifully.

I am just so grateful that, finally, there is an alternative available. That alternative is the International Paso Horse Federation and the American Trote and Trocha Association (IPHF/ATTA). These organizations are proving to me, by their actions, that they are willing to dedicate themselves to all the Paso modalities in a very big way! They are putting the best interests of the breed first. Are they just SAYING this? No, they are DOING it!

So, I really think this alternative is just what PHFA needs to force it to pick a direction and dedicate itself to that direction. They are no longer the only game in town. We have options now. I think it's great and it will ultimately make PFHA a better organization, IF they are willing to seize the opportunities. Will they? Time will tell. But, in the meantime, I can not be a member. PFHA will have to prove to me, with a new and sustained pattern of behavior, that they are changed before I will re-join as a member. I wish them well.

Looking forward to the Show this weekend in Miami--the IPHF/ATTA US National Trials! Good luck everyone! And, Jackie, looking forward to seeing you and your boy!
~Becky

caliber

wildflower

wildflower

BigJ · My general thoughts on this--

BigJ

wildflower

The IPHF show this past weekend had great judging system, they explain everything to the public. Everyone understood the reasoning behind the decisions.
We felt the horses were judge failry and it was not about the rider, the owner or who knows who, it was all about the horses and how good they were.
And that is all we ask for, for a good show, good judging, good athmosphere, good fun!!!! Smile

Jacky

Hacienda Radiante

wildflower

Hacienda Radiante THANK YOU!

I am glad that I was not the only one that saw this, and it was not the first time and unfortunately it will not be the last. Twisted Evil

This should be investigated and find should be paid by the people wheter it is member, Vice President or President.

People ask me all the times, why don't you show your horses and I say I don't like the judging system and too much politics. The shows are not fair and it is getting worse every year.

The judges were hired by the individulal that got a second chance on the board.

I am hoping that IPHF will have more shows like the one they had this past weekend, it was the best!

BigJ

Then file a complaint through the appropriate channels.

wildflower

Sure.

BigJ

Let us know the outcome when you file.

wildflower

BigJ,
What do you think the outcome will be? you seem to be very knowledge, I would like to know your opinion and everybody else opinions are on what they think will happen if a complaint if filed.

loriperez

Maybe if the judges had to EXPLAIN their placements and actions, there would be less of this nonense going on. And, believe me if Jacky had complained she would have been bounced on by that group.

I question what it is you are saying about ATTA not supporting the breed, and it really doesn't matter because I am not going to rehash the same thing over and over. ATTA tried to work with PFHA and their Confepaso delegates for the last 8 years, unfortuneately most of the time it was an uphill political battle. I don't think you really know everything that went on. I am not blaming PFHA alone, but PFHA (most of the BOD) was always looking for a way to "get rid of & squash" ATTA. It is a real shame, we could have been working together the last 8 years to promote the breed and grow together. Now it maybe too late for that to happen.

BigJ

PasoTres

OK you just Beleive in what you want. You must like big goverment also. And this is the main reason the Paso breed has not made forward progress and no marketing to boot. Big J, You just ramble and talk circles. I will have to attend a few PFHA shows rather I like it or not. Our farm houses Quality horses all of them FINO and Trote Y Galope. As I pour money in these projects I would like fair judging and a fair shake. I have witnessed over the past few years the Bull that has been dished to Paso owners because the judge knows or is freinds with the riders. Do you think for one moment when Rider Ratliff at the time was president would recieve poor judging? I seen many well qualifying horse that should have receive placement; get HM and the winners of the class had horses that could not meet the requirements of the class win, and the riders were Judges or involve at high levels of PFHA. SO dont feed me your crap! Many people are now discouraged to show because of these actions. PFHA is now like backyard, I'm your buddy, I will look the other way when you make mistakes and I will pat you on the back win a ribbon.

Marleen Robinson · Welcome back, Big J!

I missed you! glad you are back.
I appreciate all you do, and I'm sure a lot of us do. It's difficult to change a whole organization to change their way of thinking/doing. Just like telling a smoker(like me Rolling Eyes

) to quit smoking, it will be better for me..., or an alcoholic to quit drinking... PFHA has had the taste of money, for a long time now, it'll be hard to quit, and become honest, transparent, and most of all, to put the BREED's future FIRST!
Not sure if all that came out allright, but I think you catch my drift Wink

.

Anyway, happy you're back! PM me if you think I can help you with Oct. meeting stuff....

BigJ

Thanks Marleen. I never really left. I just needed a break.

I'll let you know. Maybe I'm asking too much to expect a corporation to follow its own rules. dunno

Why make 'em?

Club

Boy that one smart PasoTres! Not sure if you posted in the right thread. I think you might be referring to my bald sarcastic remark about fino horses being man-made and this being a shit breed.

No, I have seen Robin Ratliff be given favors before she was president by other judges. Nothing like watching a judge and rider pass pleasantries in the middle of a judged class and watching the horse place without having to fulfill the requirements of the class. Makes me proud to be a part of it. Robin rode the only horse that was not required to back in a class and then be placed.

Marleen Robinson

.Why make rules???
So it'll look like it's all ligit, so they can break em without members realizing it, and get away with it all nono

.

At least some folks are beginning to 'see through it'.

Different matter: I wish I could email you a pic of Sassie, my new 'hellion' kitten. She is something else! Still working with ATT on mailing pics again. Don't know what went wrong, but I can not send pics Twisted Evil

BigJ

I'll be waiting to hear more about Sassie. Hmm, haven't heard anything about Nikki lately either.

Kerry W

Well, Nikki's mommy has her hands full...seems Dad picked up a little stray kitty on the way home a couple of nights ago. He's pretty pitiful, so I'll post some pics of him, once he looks a little more like a cat. Nikki doesn't know what to do about it all...she's been Princess of the Palace for quite some time now. Rolling Eyes

wildflower

BigJ

I'd like to see a more impartial Judges and Stewards Committee or have an entirely independent, separate panel of members who are not judges or stewards act as auditors at shows. We have plenty of experts who know the rules and the breed that can be impartial about how a show is conducted. It is absolutely ridiculous to have only show management "evaluate" a judge. How blantant can that be when most of the show management is showing?

For the longest I thought that was the steward's job. But that seems to have been turned into nothing but a person that tattletellers go to and nothing more. Seems the steward is absolutely not interested in the show's activities within or outside the arena except to walk around looking bored. I mean, if a steward was watching the judging procedure, wouldn't he/she be one of the first to bring it to show management's attention and then file a complaint for inappropriate behavior by a judge? Couldn't the steward give out a warning card or something and if that exhibitor or judge got "x" many over time be suspended?

I do like the pre-pista inspection Fedequinas has. PFHA's is a joke. The explanations I've heard at some shows are so generalized, so politically correct, they don't substantiate a placement or a judge's behavior. Here are some examples:

Mundial 2005 the reserve fino mare champion had one of the worst figure 8 demonstrations I have ever seen. I mean the worst of the worst. She hopped, skipped, leaned in with her shoulders to the point I'd thought she'd fall. To keep her balance her head jutted to the outside of the circle, she crossed over in the rear end and fell out of gait. She got reserve because she was an obvious Colombian favorite. I can't recall the explanation as to why such a bad performance was rewarded.

Mundial 2007 the fino stallion champion was sore footed and going lame. It became obvious during the figure 8 and serpentine tests. He appeared sound going straight and on the first couple times on the sounding board. As the class was worked, he got more and more sore and the last time on the sounding board you could hear and see it. The judges protected the horse by allowing him to "rest" as the obvious winner and continued working the rest of the class. The justification when explained was the horse was obviously the best in the class and required no further testing. He won because he was the obvious favorite.

Mundial 2001 the fino filly champion and ultimately the overall mare champion rarely gaited and crab-walked the entire time in the class. If she ever tracked all four legs on two lines I never saw it. Her head was atrocious and her rear end the worst I ever seen. Again, the worst of the worst. She won because she was the obvious favorite.

The explanations for why these horses won were immaterial since the mob was exhubriated. These horses are great horses, champions no doubt, but not on that day. Recall Angela Ochoa's backlash for down grading a mob favorite because of his lackluster performance that day? Did anyone really listen to the explanation why? Nope, when the favorite doesn't get the win, the mob shouts over the explanation.

Each of these champions failed significant tests to prove they had the characteristics of the paso fino. One was lame, the others were so crooked and out of balance they didn't gait; and yet they won and everyone was happy. So happy, that now, the pressure is on the keep judges "honest" by making them explain themselves and this system is touted as "ideal". But when a judge is honest and does explain herself, if it doesn't satisfy everyone's opinion of who is the "best" horse (no matter what), then she is blasted, suspeneded, and investigated.

wildflower

BigJ,
You are so right about everything you wrote. It is the steward's job to look for those things, I beleive often they look the other way. It is so much bill shit lately, I just don't want to go to the shows.
At the last SRPFHA my four year old fino colt was excused and we did not know why, a week later we found out that he was excused because they claim he was too slow and this is the same colt that took 5th place at the National last year and that should say something, that was the same weekend that someone was granted another chance on the board by these judges.
Anyway, the year is over for us as far as showing unless IPHF puts on another show, next year we will not participate in any SRPFHA shows unless big changes are made!!
Please let us know when the next meetings are and we will be there unless they want to keep it a big secret and don't want any members present. Shocked

pasosx3

As far as the Judging system within PFHA, it seems to be working just fine for a select group of people and they don't seem inclined to change it...

As far as vast changes within PFHA: In order for ANY REAL CHANGE to take place within PFHA, the Leaders would have to vote themselves out of Office. What are the odds of that?

What I just can not wrap my mind around is WHY PFHA members complain about how corrupt the Judging and Judging System is, do nothing about it (ie. file complaints or contact the Steward, etc), and THEN continue to Show their horses at PFHA sanctioned Shows. Where is the personal integrity? IF it is so bad, why endorse it by remaining a Member? The Leaders have demonstrated time and again they will not listen to the Membership, so vote with your wallet. Stop giving them any money. The way I see it, PFHA needs me more than I need them. That's a great feeling!

loriperez

caliber

pasosx3

pasosx3 · Re: My general thoughts on this--

BIG J wrote:
[/quote]

Now to answer you: YES!!

Before my first post, I contacted two professional parliamentarian organizations. I have been in contact with three parliamentarians about this specific issues and a few others I have had with PFHA. I am trying to finalize my discussions with them ASAP.

So, yes, I will be at the October meeting and I will be as prepared as I can possibly be to work through this. I ask for patience as I try to finalize and then share what I have learned.

PFHA is my association that supports my breed. As angry as I am, I am a member and as a member I will do what I can to make this work and if it cannot work, then I will make sure it will not harm the breed. I do not see ATTA or IPHF as advesaries nor as "replacements". Nor do I see PFHA as the ultimate USA representative of pasos or CONFEPASO as a world-wide voice for pasos.

What I see is a lack of structure as result of a lack of will from the members that make up these organizations. What I see is me, you, "us" not demanding more from each other. What I see is very little faith in an animal we all claim we endear in our hearts. I see very little pride that the paso IS the best and so very little effort to maintain the horse AS IT IS. I see very little respect for an animal that literally represents a history of great nations and great people. As a result, is it any wonder we no longer respect each other and behave as we do?

I believe in this horse and because I do, I WILL work towards a structure that provides procedure that allows "us" to communicate our support for our breed. My goal is to put back in the respect that will allow us to move forward again.[/quote]
******************************************************
Candice, thank you for doing this. Please keep us posted. I understand what you are saying about Procedures not being followed. But, aside from this being information, does it have any "teeth"? I mean, they seem to have a "thumb their nose" attitude towards the membership...so what is there to do about it?

I also agree completely that there seems to be so little pride in the Paso Fino breed from PFHA. It's practically ignored in so many discussions. For an Organization that is supposed to be dedicated to the well being, protection, and enhancement of the Paso Fino breed, it sure seems to keep that aspect under wraps. I mean, the Paso Fino is one of the BEST breeds of horses in the World. The Association should, if anything, have a smug attitude, a proprietary attitude, but instead, there seems to be this, I don't know, almost, shame about it or something. It's weird. If I was entrusted with a rare treasure, I would do everything I could to protect it, isn't the Paso Fino a Treasure also?

Kerry W

How's it going, Candice?

caliber · ANOTHER RULE THAT NO ONE HAS SEEN!

Alex Amador, President of Florida Region! makes stuff uses all members votes without any notification to members and STICKS IT TO YOU!

Here is the latest!

Page 55.
Author: Alexandra Amador
New Section:
XIII. Guest Competition Passport.
A. Guest Competition Passport may be issued to horses not
registered with the Pas Fino Horse Association for competition
purposes only. The Guest Competition Passport does not entitle the
horse the right to accrue points towards any Paso Fino Horse
Association awards nor to attend the Paso Fino Horse Association’s
Grand National Championship Horse Show. There will be a lifetime
limit of two (2) Guest Competition Passports issued to any horse.
After that, the horse must be registered with the Paso Fino Horse
Association to compete at association sanctioned shows. The PFHA
will keep the original Guest Competition Passport applications in a
designated folder for easy retrieval, if necessary. The PFHA office
will keep a list of issued Guest Competition Passports and will
provide that list to every designated show secretary at the time that
the official show packet for a show is mailed.
B. Requirements for Use of a Guest Competition Passport:
1. The applicant horse must be registered with an
accepted registry, recognized as such by the PFHA at the tine of the
competition. The list of accepted Registries must be current as of the
week of the competition in which the Guest Competition Passport will
be used. The list may be obtained from the PFHA.
2. The applicant horse must meet all the eligibility
requirements for registration with the Paso Fino Horse Association as
stated in Chapter 8., Section IV., 1., such that the applicant horse’s
sire and dam both are designated paso fino and the applicant horse
is not a clone, nor the result of a cloned sire or dam.

PFHA Other Modalities Policy (Discussion)

Diagonals Advertising in PFHA Horse World Magazine

Conversation w/PFHA Delegate Re: Advertising in PFHW Magazin

comments/support to Big J

My general thoughts on this--

Welcome back, Big J!

Re: My general thoughts on this--

ANOTHER RULE THAT NO ONE HAS SEEN!