IPHF/ATTA Show Schedule

pasosx3 · IPHF/ATTA Show Schedule

This opinion might be a bit controversial, but I think it's great that the Paso Fino Pleasure Classes are only open to Non-Professionals (NP). I have thought for a long time that having Professionals ride in the Paso Fino Pleasure Classes is a waste of Professional talent. I am glad to see the Professionals will only be riding Paso Finos in the Classic Fino classes. It's about time. This is where they belong--showing off the highly prized Classic Fino gait.

I've also believed that under the PFHA (American-style ) judging system, the value of Professional Trainers and Riders is diminished. When someone can enter a Class and get a Ribbon just for showing up, which are the rules under PFHA, then why would an amateur owner pay a Professional? I mean, when it's so easy to get a Ribbon (under the PFHA rules), who needs the Pros?

That is why I like the Confepaso (International-style) Judging rules, where the horse is judged against the Breed Standard and it doesn't matter if there are 2 or 15 horses in the Class, if they don't "measure up", they don't get Ribbons. Now, this makes the Professional Trainer and Rider much more valued because they are the one's who can get the best and most out of the horses. Over time, under this system, the best Professionals will be rewarded with the best horses to Train and Show and their value will be increased. This system raises the bar for all the Professionals because now they won't be able to enter a class and get a Ribbon for just showing up either. They, too will have to proove themselves, just like the horses they are riding.

Just my thoughts on the subject. Feel free to 'fire away'...I'll duck.

BigJ

Interesting...

Considering the history as to how the professionally paid trainers ended up in pleasure classes to begin with---perhaps you should ask one that shows in those classes.

I'd like to know what horse is used as the breed standard as well.

Just FYI--PFHA's history also had a period where horses were place 2nd, 4th or excused based on the mythical image. PFHA also had a period where professionals could not compete in certain classes--they are called Amatuer Owner classes.

I would ask why it is these same people who show in IPHF and PFHA if this is good or not. After all they are the ones not PFHA that diminished their own status by their choice. PFHA did not force the classes on them, force them to train the horses, or force them to show the horses or force them to take that ribbon in the end. I haven't seen one professionally paid trainer throw away a paso pleasure blue ribbon. Some even *gasp* breed them.

If the professionals are so supportive of non-pros then why did they compete for such an easy win? Why are the classes full?

Training a horse is an honorable profession. There should be no shame in encouraging the best performance out of a horse no matter the horse's abilities or limitations. The best trainers get the best from the horse. The best trainers are not about "fino" but "paso fino".

Saying that it is a waste of a trainer's talent to ride a pleasure horse is the same as saying that horse is not worth being a paso fino. Which is worse? A horse that is never shown producing fino champions or a winning pleasure horse doing so? Which is worse a fino competitive horse that can win in a pleasure class or a pleasure horse winning in a fino class? Many young pleasure horses become fino champions and many young fino champions are never competitive again because they lack talent.

Many of the best trainers start ALL of their horses by pleasure riding and pleasure training. Kinda makes me think the breed is just a shit breed myself and the fino gait is all man-made.

Hacienda Radiante

Given the brio I see exhibited in some of the so-called Pleasure mares at Nationals every year I'd say that only a trainer could safely handle them. Laughing

BigJ

Haven't you heard? Pleasure horses have no brio. Only a "fino" horse has brio--ask Profeta or Labriego.

reubenT

so what is the difference between 'professional' and 'amateur owner' ?
Isn't it just a difference between being paid to train and not being paid?
I have seen a few AO's better at it than pro's.
Of course those paid to do it generally spend a lot more time at it, time spent = skill gained. usually, unless poor methods prevail. If the AO spends the time and strives to excell, they gain the skill.
The few AO's I've seen that were really good are the ones who spend a good share of their time fooling with horses and don't have to waste any time trying to earn a living.

Fino class horses competing in pleasure; I see enough of it, and they usually don't go much more relaxed than in the fino class. Now they're all purty much a pleasure to ride. But does the one that's a real pleasure to ride, like relaxed sauntering down the trail pleasure, win the pleasure class? I havn't seen it happening. The one I consider the greatest pleasure ride is more likely to get the gate.
I've watched shows long enough to conclude I don't want to show seriously. I may a little but just to see what happens and just for association with friends.
But those IPHF shows might be different. When the focus is more on educating the riders and viewers it's a whole different kind of show. Specially if they're not afraid to tell it like it is as far as the bad points as well as the good.

caliber

caliber

I will never classified that as Brio! Brio has nothing to do with the "BAD" reaction or behavior on a horse! That for me is a mishandle non trained properly horse that the trainer, amature or rider has completely damaged the horse!

I breed for BRIO! and I mean BRIO! and let me clue you! first day on the saddle is a DREAM, first day with the farrier is a dream! all vets visit are dreams, first day on the cross ties a dream! first trailer load, a dream! and the best of all! anyone knowledge to ride, can ride!

We have totally mistaken the word BRIO! with a Mal trained, humiliated horse that due to training is a METAL case! THATS NOT BRIO!

Another thing that I have noticed is the way our breed is market! ANYONE CAN RIDE! suffer BACK problems, RETIRED! come on! These horses are the most comfortable breed on earth! but they do require equitation! PEOPLE MUST EDUCATE themselves before getting on a horse PERIOD!

So! for a horse that is totally wacko! is not BRIO! for a horse to be totally jumpy! Brio is the HEART of a horse! Brio means the longer you work your horse, the willing to continue giving a full capacity..... that is brio! Brio is not a horse that looks great and after 4 laps needs push assistance from the rider or else!

A horse on a stall that is jumpy, shaky is not brio! we often see how our horses in stall are completely in fear of the famous CAP or HATS! wonder why! and then you hear! BRIO!

I have known GREAT Fino champions stallions that have been bred mad crazy! and guess what! NO BRIO AT ALL! in my book! BURROS (donkeys)[/quote]

BigJ

Gee, I'm usually the one that loses it!

Marleen Robinson

Yeah! Both of our most 'passionate' members have finally returned! With a vengeance! Very Happy

.

I am so glad Felix plunged into to that one. I was pondering that post for awhile, but was too 'chicken' to answer it, because I could not find the appropriate words. Sometimes, the language barrier, is just that, a barrier. My words, or sentences, or spelling come out wrong. Anyway, Felix said it just right. Brio is a hard thing to explain to some people, but if you have experiened it for yourself the correct way, you will never forget it. It is not created out of fear, you can not 'put' it into a horse that does not have it! So stop trying!!! I second everything else he says. Seen too many 'jumpy' and truly 'fearful' horses at shows, and just at any one's barns, it is sad. My soso gaited, almost 20 year old trail gelding may be considerd a passive Paso by many, but, when he really enjoys his ride, that ole boy has BRIO! All heart, without even trying....

caliber

Glad to be back for few weekend hours! I have been managing to take a break for less than 24 hours on weekends and fly back home! I will be on my way out again to catch the tour tomorrow morning!

Life is good! although you all don't see me! I do manage to always be connected via my Palm Pre! jejejejejejeje

For those of you tracking me down thru facebook! have realized I am working 24/7 with maybe 3 hours sleep! wow! BUT HAPPY! jejeje

Love y'all!

BigJ

Well, at least you have an excuse Caliber. I'm still trying to find one that is believable.

I kinda like "passionate". Briosa.

loriperez

Maybe HR just used the wrong word, but I understand what was meant by it. There are way too many horses that are being shown in Pleasure that really don't belong in that class (or Performance or Fino - there is not a real place for them in the show ring for the classes available.) We can only blame training up to a certain point. Owner's and breeders need to take a closer look at why we are ending up with so many horses that can not find a niche.

pasosx3

I will clarify further what I mean. It shouldn't take a Professional Rider to ride a Pleasure Paso Fino in the show Ring. If part of the definition of a Pleasure horse is that it is a "pleasure to ride" then show me an A/O riding it well and the horse responding well due to the excellent training of the Professional Trainer!

Believe me, if I saw a pattern of A/O's winning Pleasure Classes with horses professionally trained by XYZ Professional Trainer, you can bet that the next time I was in the market for a Pleaure Paso Fino, I would hunt down Mr or Ms XYZ Professional Trainer and pony up good money for a horse trained by them.

There are way too many poorly trained Pleasure horses showing up in the Show Rings. I would love to see the Rules of how the horses are shown in Pleasure Classes be modified to show them doing more of the things a true Pleasure (recreational) Paso Fino might do in the real world in addition to demonstrating that wonderful 4-beat isochronal smooth paso gait. How bout making the rider dismount in the Class and remount from the "off" side to demonstrate the horses good manners? That's just one idea. The current Rules aren't set in stone, are they?????

In a lot of ways, I guess I expect more from the Pleasure Paso Fino than I do from the Classic Paso Fino. All I want in the Classic Paso Fino is the execution of the correct gait but with the Pleasure Paso Fino, I guess I really do expect to see a horse that's a pleasure for anyone to ride...

loriperez

Becky - I get what you are saying for sure! They used to require the rider to dis-mount and re-mount. The horse was supposed to stand still while doing this. I rarely if ever see this any longer. The last time we showed a horse in the Pleasure class at Nationals it was "Geldings for Gold" and it was a requirement during the class. In fact, it was a big factor in the placements! I do wish there was something more "pleasureable" about a lot of the pleasure horses in the show ring today.

The reason why there are so many pros riding them in the ring....$$$$ they need to in these times. Where before many well known trainers wouldn't even consider riding in pleasure or performance for that matter.

Me - I prefer to see any division pleasure, performance, fino and diagonal when it is well done Laughing