caliber
|
Capuchino del 8 clone born!First Paso Fino Clone Borned!
Congratulations Zarella!
adding more pictures!
|
Kerry W
|
Wow! Congratulations! What a beautiful baby!
|
BigJ
|
Congratulations!
|
Marleen Robinson
|
Wow! Congratultions! He is beautiful.
|
The Professional
|
Super interesting topic! Thank you Caliber!
That mare is so gentle to aloud her new born to be close to humans, and little Capuchino has his first imprinting lesson. Great pic’s , more info please.
|
loriperez
|
Great looking foal. Thanks for posting those pictures. It will be interesting to see what "spirit" he has. I still think you can't reproduce that. Regardless I am sure this new baby will be very special indeed. I wonder what his name will be - Capuchino Segundo?
Felix where was the foal born? Those pictures don't look like they are from Davilas place.
PS I wanted to ask you what is the name of your farm???
Take care, Lori
|
Moniece
|
Oh WOW! He is BEAUTIFUL! CONGRATS Zarella!!! I'll be so excited to keep watch on him as he grows up! Your friend,Moniece
|
Pasofinoguy
|
I must be the only one to think that this is wrong.
|
Kerry W
|
No...you're probably not. I don't know if it's right or wrong...not for me to say. After losing Capuchino, I am glad that Zarela has this baby. I hope he brings her great joy.
|
reubenT
|
I consider gene transplanting and manipulation as it's being done to make what's called GMO plants to be wrong because it's changing things from the way God made them, and he made them perfect. (what they're doing in plants would be like crossing horses and cows, or horses and trees, or humans and rats) But when it comes to reproduction without making unnatural genetic changes, that's ok. If compared to plants, some plants we reproduce by seed, some by taking cuttings, (or both) and a lot of tissue culture is done in the industry, and that's cloning plants. The only difference I can see between doing it with plants and animals is the cellular age thing, while most plants don't age at a cellular level, it seems animals do, last time I read up on cloning animals that was the problem, premature aging. Have they overcome it yet? I havn't kept up with developments.
While God originally intended aging and death to never happen, sin entered and it happened, and while there are a few things we can do to slow down the aging process, we find it imposible to stop it.
I hope cappy jr lives a good life and makes Zarela very happy.
|
caliber
|
although I am very happy for my friend Zarella! I have to agree! Don'T mess with nature which is G-Ds will and creation!
I don't think Science could ever reach the answers nor could ever figure out the divine mystery of life............. all I see them doing is poisoning our Planet and every living creature everyday more........... JMHO
|
BigJ
|
You are not alone Adam.
Yet, it is hard not to rejoice in seeing a paso fino born no matter how it may have been created.
I prefer God's way over man's way. This baby will not ever replace Capuchino because he is not Capuchino, just a cellular piece of him. I don't see how the essense and spirit of a living thing can be reproduced. He doesn't have a mother and he doesn't have a father... it the traditional sense and that does count for something.
I am glad to see the surrogate to be paso mare. Maybe I am full of old timer way of thinking but the womb counts for something as does how a baby is raised and our pasos should have the privilege of being paso from the first day.
We will see if he will be tested and make it as a paso fino in time.
I hope this red baby replaces the loss of Capuchino for Zarela. I know if I could bring back a few of my own, I would not hesitate to try.
|
wildflower
|
it is wrong!!Zarela Olsen will be at the meeting to promote registering clones I don't think members are allowed to speak unless they are scheduled!!!!!
This is so wrong and are we going to be able to vote on this as members???
|
caliber
|
Hola Jacky, I dont really understand what your saying? are you saying that Zarella will be at the Regional anual meeting to promote cloning?
Saludos! (hugs)
|
2-Wpaso
|
| Quote: | | This is so wrong and are we going to be able to vote on this as members??? |
Jacky..what do you mean?..that its wrong that Zarella can't speak without being sheduled...or...that is wrong to register clones?
Why would it be wrong to register clones when it is the same DNA..its PASO FINO...and its provable?
As far as the comment that it is wrong to make clones sighting that its tampering with God's work.....I disagree.
Our maker gave us brains, he gave us all the pathways to make discoveries, he opened up the world for us, and if he did not want us to have that knowledge...why would he then allow it?
Just food for thought....
I'm all FOR cloning and scientific discovery and look forward to the day it helps the human race to cure diseases we are currently suffering with. JMO
|
wildflower
|
ooppps sorry
|
wildflower
|
It is my opinion that it is wrong to register clones. You are talking about scientific discovery for human beings here we are talking about horses. I am not looking for a big fight or argument I am saying it is wrong and it is my opinion.
my 2 cents
|
caliber
|
I understand Jacky, but.... the clone is already here! I think is important to support all channels to assure that clones get their proper documentation!
The agree or disagree of the CLONE industry has now become a thing of the past! NOW! we have clones that are fully blooded and our organizations should deal with it...........
I'm glad Zarella is taking the initiative in doing so! something that our organization should have done some time back!
Is my understanding the cost of a clone is 150,000. US dollars! I don't think I will be seeing too many clones out there.......... there will be only a selective few........ and we should all become fully educated in a acceptance matter! just my opinion!
GREAT THREAD! thanks Jacky for bringing this matter up!
Saludos!
|
dcancel
|
The Science behind cloning might be usable, but we still don't know the full effect it will have in a breed, I don't think it should be permitted to enter the gene pool until we know what long term impact it will have. Like all discoveries and new science it is exciting but we do not have all the facts. We have been working hard too preserve a breed. How can we so callously put all our ancestors and our work in jeopardy... this is not to be taken lighty... more research and information is required.....
JMO
|
caliber
|
very good point Denisse! I couldnt agree more with your comment! but then why werent they stopped from cloning before the fact!!!!!!!!!! at least getting all facts out....... like you just did!
I agree! we are bound for distruction here......................
Thanks for your comment!
|
caliber
|
I just received reports from ATLANTA!
The PFHA meeting tomorrow at 8AM the Scientists will be releasing information in favor the clone!
Alex Amador from Florida Region is the one opposing to all this crap! WHY! CAUSE SHE WILL HATE ZARELLA OLSEN FOR LIFE!!!! WHY! for taking CAPUCHINO back!
Is everything clear now!
SO AGAIN! FLORIDA will abuse their power of votes one more time................. in the mean time! I have not received a call or anything pertaining this subject of discussion from my DELEGATE! which is the also the President, ALEX AMADOR
The AMADOR'S SAGA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! at it again! Welcome to socialism! better said! WELCOME TO PFHA.................................
|
caliber
|
more Rules made by Alex Amador! rules that no one has ever seen!
THIS IS DEAD WRONG! this is not Alex Amador Association!
Come on people! if members don't act now! This association will soon be history!
They are playing with your money, horses and integrity!
Page 55.
Author: Alexandra Amador
New Section:
XIII. Guest Competition Passport.
A. Guest Competition Passport may be issued to horses not
registered with the Pas Fino Horse Association for competition
purposes only. The Guest Competition Passport does not entitle the
horse the right to accrue points towards any Paso Fino Horse
Association awards nor to attend the Paso Fino Horse Association’s
Grand National Championship Horse Show. There will be a lifetime
limit of two (2) Guest Competition Passports issued to any horse.
After that, the horse must be registered with the Paso Fino Horse
Association to compete at association sanctioned shows. The PFHA
will keep the original Guest Competition Passport applications in a
designated folder for easy retrieval, if necessary. The PFHA office
will keep a list of issued Guest Competition Passports and will
provide that list to every designated show secretary at the time that
the official show packet for a show is mailed.
B. Requirements for Use of a Guest Competition Passport:
1. The applicant horse must be registered with an
accepted registry, recognized as such by the PFHA at the tine of the
competition. The list of accepted Registries must be current as of the
week of the competition in which the Guest Competition Passport will
be used. The list may be obtained from the PFHA.
2. The applicant horse must meet all the eligibility
requirements for registration with the Paso Fino Horse Association as
stated in Chapter 8., Section IV., 1., such that the applicant horse’s
sire and dam both are designated paso fino and the applicant horse
is not a clone, nor the result of a cloned sire or dam.
|
tonypasofino
|
Cloning Science And progressJust like insemination and embrios now we are talking about the clon, all other equestrian associations Quarter Horse,Arabian and the rest They clon, we are the only breed that we dont do it.
Cows ,pigs and sheep been doing it for many years now.
We cannot stop science and the advancement of technology .
No wonder our Paso Fino Breed is almost non existent in USA we are behind in time and we are directed by fosils and dinosours in most regions of PFHA,.
What I think is that if you own a horse and you have the money to clon no organization should transgress, impose they will or tell you what you can do with your money or your horse and is our constitution in the bill of rights that we have in USA that right and freedom.
If you talk about God the same principal applies to insemination ,castration and Tail operation,embrio transfer etc etc.
Our problem is the embrios that has devalue our horses overflowing our industry of Paso Fino Horses,
In this case Capuchino del 8 is one of the most important horse in our breed and his genetic composition has made posible that in USA 90% that you see in shows comes from the line of Capuchino.
Do not allienate the whealty sponsors ,if PFHA dont do it other organizations will and thats where the sponsors are going to go.
With a Grand national with the lowest attendance in history I wonder in the wisdom or stupidity of the delegates.
IPHF is making a mark in the industry and recognize all National and International registries, The clon issue will be next.
So for the better of the breed lets have more Capuchinos,Amadeus,Clasico,Profeta II de Besilu, Salome de Lusitania ,Maraquita la Rosa y manny more that will enhance our breed in the next Millenia.
If you owned any of all horses above would you clon ?
Be honest the answer is yes.
Lets be real not because you dont have a horse or the 150k to clon is not a reason to opose the evolution of science.
Our Horse deserves the perfection that will aquire by cloning only the best.
In the cows they clon the cows that gives more milk or meat.
All the other industries as well.
We need to be in the forefront of any other breed of horses in USA but our Paso Fino is going backwards because our association is run by breeders that have no idea what corporate america is all about....
They run PFHA like their farms. we need professionals at the front of all our areas and specially in the executive BOD. Take a look what they do for a living and you will see what I mean...
Respectfully,
Tony Rodriguez
|
tonypasofino
|
ViagenI am in Atlanta in PFHA anual meeting.
I must say there is a lot to learn.
First I realized that the issue of the clon is very emotional.
We just have to imagine how much would you suffer when your beloved horse dies.
I would give up so many things in my life to have it back.
But when you save his tissue and you clone you would have a piece of your soul back by virtue of having a piece of your beloved Horse again.
When I am rigth I am rigth and when I am wrong and I admit it.
The command of the executive BOD is outstanding they are in control and made a lot of progress in helping PFHA this 2009. A lot!
The reports were very clear and professional and delivered with acuracy and all the fiscal aspects of PFHA are in good hands, yes , they are!
They were lots of good news and It also help me to understand that the problem is with the delegates ( our presidents) and not all of them.
there are branches that I did not realized before and needs clarification.
We are 3 branches 1) the Executive BOD, 2) all the delegates and 3 ) we the members.
The executive directors have to deal with a lot! from the delegates, there is where the problems lies ! and there is where we the members have not been pro=active in going to elections and remove people that are not prepared to lead our regions and been there for long long long time.
I must admit I am taking a more positive impresion of executive BOD.
The delegates ( and not all) is another story I am taking some bad impresions of some of them that to me they only care about themselves and their farms not our members and the future of our breed
I saw a lot of good intentions but the people that have been there for so long are reluctant to move forward and the process slows down almost to a halt.
I was very hard last nite in my previous reply with the executive BOD because of my ignorance as I saw them together as one with the delegates,
There are abismal the diferences between the executive BOD and the delegates.
My coments in regards with the clon in my past reply are firm but I must apologize for my hard words to the Executive BOD.
For them is so hard to move forward because they have to battle , yes BATTLE with the delegates. issue after issue after issue.
I encourage everyone that reads this to attend one of this meetings for your own conclusions, it was very good for me and now I have a clear picture of where the problem lies,
I had the oportunity to vent personally some issues with a lot of officials and there is a lot of them with genuine interest ! but the well is poisoned for so long and we see them all as one NOT! VERY UNFAIR
Just like in politics we call our congressman we MUST do the same thing with our presidents of every region.
You will be surprise how some presidents take desicions without asking or take in consideration us the members and come to the national meeting with their own agenda .
So here it is the good and the bad in my view!!!!
My apology to the executive BOD for my past words and my condolecence to "some" regions of our PFHA.
Its amazing how a day can change the view and help you grow.
Tony Rodriguez
|
grif
|
Tony, thanks for taking the time to come to the meeting.
|
pasosx3
|
Re: Viagen | tonypasofino wrote: | I am in Atlanta in PFHA anual meeting.
I must say there is a lot to learn.
The command of the executive BOD is outstanding they are in control and made a lot of progress in helping PFHA this 2009.
It also help me to understand that the problem is with the delegates ( our presidents) and not all of them.
there are branches that I did not realized before and needs clarification.
We are 3 branches 1) the Executive BOD, 2) all the delegates and 3 ) we the members.
The executive directors have to deal with a lot! from the delegates, there is where the problems lies !
The delegates ( and not all) is another story I am taking some bad impresions of some of them that to me they only care about themselves and their farms not our members and the future of our breed
I saw a lot of good intentions but the people that have been there for so long are reluctant to move forward and the process slows down almost to a halt.
There are abismal the diferences between the executive BOD and the delegates.
For them is so hard to move forward because they have to battle , yes BATTLE with the delegates. issue after issue after issue.
You will be surprise how some presidents take desicions without asking or take in consideration us the members and come to the national meeting with their own agenda .
Tony Rodriguez |
Tony: Thanks for the update and for your observations. I agree with you, the Regional System and Delegate System is antiquated and corrupt for the most part. It's certainly a broken system! Seems only a privileged few get to know what's really going on and have their voices heard and the "privileged few" are self-serving and they know who they are!
IF PFHA Leaders implemented a One-Member-One Vote way of determining Major Issues, it would be a big step forward, imo. And, I don't mean by Proxy System either, I mean, written ballad votes. I would re-join PFHA if they did this. The written ballads could be sent once a year with all the important issues to be voted on. I'd even pay the return postage just to know that my "voice" was being heard and my vote counted!
|
caliber
|
So! yes, thanks to everyone who gets involve! Yes, thanks to everyone that cares! YES! Thank you BOD (good for nothing in my opinion) for being so kind and generous and always being there.......(for what?)
NOW! my question? WHAT was the outcome! do I need to wait and hear it from a Delegate that will never say? Do I need to wait 6 months after the fact to hear all about it! DO I NEED TO ATTEND TO A MEETING? or let me guess! hussssshhhhh...... hussshhhhh....... from the elite group so they can feel important?
Tony, your words are genuine! and i do respect you for correcting your wrongs, you are a true hero for doing so! BUT MY WORDS are also genuine! and I speak with facts...... WHAT HAPPENED AT THE MEETING? Cindy was there, but we all know she will never relate a piece of anything! although I do have to admit, her region has been one of the few pieces of information in reporting..... something that our President ED SMITH and VICE PRESIDENT wont not even bother in doing so!
SO! i speak with the truth.................. Please tell us the outcome!
Saludos!
|
grif
|
What specifically would you like to know, Felix?
|
loriperez
|
Guess passport - good idea. will bring horses here to USA for big competitions. May even encourage breeders in other countries to bring in more Trocha and Trote horses. 
Cloning - bad idea - paso finos are not cows or pigs - period - my opinion 
|
2-Wpaso
|
| Quote: | | You are talking about scientific discovery for human beings here we are talking about horses. |
Jacky....I'm talking about a technology that crosses ALL lines...horses, humans, dogs, you name it...it all leads to more discoveries which most certainly can and will help human-kind.
IMO..if God didn't want us to learn this...he would not provide the brain power or knowledge to achieve it.
Its what we DO with it that will be the deciding factor.
Horse clones have been around for YEARS now...even champion barrel racing horses have been cloned.
Personally, I feel that...if Zarella or anyone else has the funds, the where-with-all, and the desire to have a clone(s) produced...then my hat is off to them.
DNA does not lie... thats a FOR SURE Paso Fino horse...so it most certainly should be allowed to be registered. We can only LEARN MORE by tracking these clones. Nor is it the business of the PFHA or any other breed organization...to get into the pocket of members by setting non-sensical rules like limits on ET's not registering clones, etc.
When the day comes that stallions are limited to two offspring a year..then *maybe* ET limits would make sense. Until then...I hope those persons who are having their profits cut by such rules will form some kind of class action suit and take the PFHA to court...because they stand a very good chance of winning and the PFHA will be on the losing end...just ask any AQHA member what happened when the AQHA decided they would put a limit on ETs a mare can produce in a year.
Its time the PFHA stepped into 2009.... got up to date on how a business is run and get OUT of the pockets of the members that give it life.
Time sure is PRIME for a NEW Paso Fino horse organization if you ask me...How in the world will this one survive its own twisting of its own rules and bylaws....??
Boy... now more than ever we need one member = one vote. The manipulation of votes by powerful regions must STOP. JMO
|
|
|
