In the interest of furthering our education;
I was browsing around youtube and found a recient video, I have no idea who it is or where it's at, but it looks like a case of a paso who wants to go faster than the rider desires, and/or using a poor choice of bit, he's pulling back on reins and the horse tucks it's nose in to avoid the bit action. Appears to be causing a bit of frustration to the horse.
Would the Pro mind commenting on proper procedure to slow down a horse that wants to go fast while avoiding the excessive or repeated pulling on the bit?
I have ridden horses on occasion who were speedaholics and it took constant tugging on the bit to go slower.
A properly trained quarter horse in the western diciplines, when cued to change speed, is supposed to maintain that speed untill the rider indicates otherwise. It's a poorly trained horse who speeds up or slows down on it's own unless some obsticle gets in the way. I don't think a paso fino should be allowed to do any differently once they get beyond basic training.
And then there's the case of a horse that seems quite well trained, but is trained to travel with light rein pressure, and if that pressure is dropped the horse takes off. I have been on one like that who was poorly trained to voice commands. I would consider that somewhat dangerous in the circumstance of accedently loosing the reins.
If I'm going to ride a horse any further than a test ride, it must be trained to stop instantly by voice command only no matter how excited it may be. But also for practical reasons, once we have some training on them I want them to maintain a selected speed with no rein pressure.
Hi Reuben, It would be my pleasure commenting on such important issue.
It’s a very interesting video you bring to a discussion, a nice looking horse too. This is an evident case of a horse “under the bit”, as you may know, that term imply that the horse is offering some type of resistance to the handler in an effort to avoid contact with the bit and downing his head is the only way they find relive, over bending to be exactly. The thing is that the rider is never in control as you can see in the video, when the horse tucks his head and spin to the left prior to open the gate. When a horse gets its way acting under the bit, is a piece of work trying to overcome the habit. It’s always easier to fix one that is over the bit.
The horse in the video appears to be unbalance, a characteristic of a horse with poor bit training. Before to be ready for a bit, a horse must endure a basic training stages were he learns to carry his own weight and the rider as well. With a proper head set and secure action of his extremities, then he’s balanced. The biting techniques may be different in each country and with each breed but the principles remain the same.
If I could somehow explain to the rider of that horse what to do in order to fix the problem I should advice the following procedure:
First of all, bring the horse back o basics, that horse is not “in the bit”, means he doesn’t have a clue what to do, other than escape pain. Forget about it! No esta embocado! A bridle set including the bit it’s designed to bring pressure to certain points on the horse head, NOT PAIN. It’s like take a 6 year old boy to college, he have to pass middle and high school first to be ready for college.
Same thing happen to the horse, they have to understand basics to proceed to the next level of training and so on.
Second, if you fail to identify any developing problem such as this one… then you’re driving your horse to a permanent deadlock stage. There is not much different between a good mouth and one that it has been damage. They both have the same amount of molars, the bars, the tongue, the bad breath, etc. So what makes the difference? The sensitiveness and the acceptance of the bit! So as you can see we’re back to basics here at this point.
Third, If you already know that the bridle is designed to apply pressure and no pain, and that one most know how to promptly identify any wrong doing either from the horse or from the own rider… then by now you have to know how to fix the problem. Start to make it easy for the poor horse, you’re responsible for prepare a stress-less environment where the horse feels secure so he can pay attention to the master. That horse in the video wasn’t want to go faster, he just wanted to get away, he probably wanted to go back to his stall, he looks desperate.
He doesn’t show any speed in his uncoordinated movements and let me tell you something else; poor biting is the base for developing of many other problems such as head tossing, stargazing, rearing and so many more. That horse has a sloppy transition of the posterior train and it’s because he’s over bending his head which hollow his back and that automatically brings out his hocks and cannons. If his head were carried correctly his vertebras will align along the spinal cord and automatically brings his rear end down and under his body carrying his weight and the rider’s weight a little more effortless for he is propelling instead of dragging. Also the rider should cut some slack on the reins, he is putting pressure on the bit at all times…”Si no hay manos no hay boca” If there’s no hands, there’s no mouth.
After the horse is visible relax you have to use a hackamore (I recommend a side-pulling hackamore) and start walking the horse and make him understand that he needs to walk not gallop or canter or paso just walk. Once again BASICS, one needs to communicate his willing to the horse. Lack of communication leads to a stressful situation and that leads to bad habits. Horses don’t know the differences between good or bad, humans do, we made the standards of what we consider good performance and a bad habit.
So we’re responsible to explain that to the horse and since they can talk we have to read their body language and communicate through the reins. If one doesn’t know what to do, what to expect, to evaluate in each stage, then is more harm than good what you can inflict to the horse. If you want to slow down the march, the speed, then teach the horse to walk; that is the best way to relax him. If the horse is stubborn, make him go into circles.
Few circles to one side then turn him to the opposite side. All the time you most use leg pressure more than bit pressure. Tilt a little of your upper body weight to the side you’re turning your horse and at same time apply leg pressure only to that side of his flank also use a slight but steady pressure pull on that rein making sure the other rein is in contact with the horses neck in a steady but flexing motion. It is a lot easier than it sounds, really. You’re using tree signals’ at the same time, bit and leg pressure plus the balance of your body, also this is a good time to use voice command to add more communication and obviously, that make the whole thing easier for the horse who now have many ways of understand what you really want out of him.
After that horse respond to a voice command, leg pressure, and slightly touch of the reins with the hackamore… then you pass the transition to the snaffle bit and use both; the hackamore and the snaffle together to communicate once again what he learns from the hackamore, now with the bit. Walking, starting the march, come to a full stop, turn to both sides with suppleness of the neck as its one of his points of balance,carrying his head properly, obeying voice commands and using his posteriors to stop and propels his body when collected in the case of pasos.
Once the horse learns to relax his center of gravity, the pole, and carried his head in a proper position with the hackamore, there is no reason why he can’t accept the bit. He most accepts the bit or he will continue to struggle to get rid of pain. So remember, NO pain should be inflicted with the bit… tugging and pulling on the bit, it’s a big No-No. The horse’s mouth is “sacred” as I always say. (Only God is sacred, it’s just a figured speech) just to make conscience on how important is to have a horse with good mouth, well biting, bien arrendado! Anyway, the bit is not much of an importance, the acceptance of it, is what one need to look for. The bit could be mild or severe, that not make any significance… the rider hands does!
There is a couple article in this section of the forum that explain a little further some aspects of the bits, the training methods, the proper head set position and so much more, I encourage you to give it a look and expand your knowledge with a few more ideas on the subject. Here are the links: http://pasovoice.com/about1457.html http://pasovoice.com/about1385.html
I would like to make a statement and hopefully not be misinterpreted… but the best thing, the very best feature that our breed have to offer, his gait, the paso; it’s also his worse allied when come to an insensitive handler who’s going along with what he sees in other trainers methods but without investing time to figure it out with what purpose, or with what ends he is doing it. Since the paso finos perform their gait natural, the riders feels so comfortable that fail to pinpoint the culprit or the source of any bad behaving of the horse.
They’re careless to address any possible problem related to their gaits. “The ability to catch problems early is critical to getting successful outcomes.”
If one cares, one most learn the proper way to biting and train the horse. Horses are what we teach them to be. If you want a better horse, you have to be a better rider. I hope to had answer your question but please feel free to ask if I miss something or tell us more of your training methods’, by your comments I think you could add more horse-savy to this table.
Last edited by The Professional on Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:45 am; edited 1 time in total _________________ The Professional of the bridle
Check all the rest and then come to the best!
Thank you very much; Good training advice. I will try to use it to best advantage for horses comfort and ease of training.
I was automatically thinking that sence he was holding back, causing the under the bit response, that the horse wanted to go forward too much when rein pressure was released. But that may have been an untrue assumption on my part.
Anyway, I suppose my mind got programmed early with "horse" when my mother got a bouncy horse on springs when I was around 1 year old, I spent excessive time on it moreso than many kids do untill I was too big for it and broke it. That's my only explanation for the interest now. When I was around 20 (in excess of 20 years ago) I started learning about horses from knowing nothing about them, had no idea where to look for info. So I just started with a book from the library called "the family horse". Sence then I've tried to learn from as many trainers as posible, all the popular ones and some not so well known. Gone to many horse events, training seminars, etc. Sat and watched many horse shows of many breeds just observing how horses act and react to their handlers, which is where I met the paso finos and started researching them deeper, because they seemed to have a spirit that the others didnt have.
Adopted several wild mustangs to learn on, starting in 1993. So far I've had a good bit of experience handling them wild and taming them, done some trail riding, but havn't got into any more advanced work with them beyond using a snaffle and basic direct rein control.
Now I'm aiming to get a paso fino or 2 and would like to get into more advanced work with them, as soon as I can get the finances figgured out.
Hi Reuben, you’re welcome, I’m glad you like and understand that long comment; I always try to explain any possible detail I could cover. You’re not wrong assuming that the horse wanted to go forward when rein pressure was released. I saw the video a couple times and at the end of the clip when the rider released the rein pressure to secure the gate, the horse automatically stay steady and you actually see when he relieves his pain from the bit pressure.
That horse doesn’t look very spirited to me, but he surely has good disposition. One thing I don’t like is the constant exaggerated leg clues and the pulling and the tugging on the bit, especially when closing the gate at the end. The horse is extra willingness at work taking into consideration that he is in pain. If one use too much of the same clues, either leg pressure, rein pressure, voice commands, or any source of indications, the horse may became use to it, would not associate or related with what it’s demanded for and possible ignore it.
If you’re into training methods gladly I can give you a couple more advises, like… when you’re training any horse, make sure to teach him the same thing in both sides of his flanks. In other words, if you turn him to the left 3 times to make him to cross his rear legs, then you have to torn him to the right the same amount of times to do the same thing. Otherwise he would learn to do it correctly only to one side.
That’s because the horse brain like humans is divided in two hemispheres, the right side of the brain controls the left side of his body and the right side of his brain controls the left side of the body. You do the math. Another thing I can tell you and anyone who’s into train horses is that the noble horse learns by repetition. If you tech something to him you have to repeat it a few more times and the next day test if he still retains the teachings.
That’s quite a nice horse story you have, I think we share the same passion for horses besides the name, we’re” tocayos” , is a Spanish slang meaning we have the same name.. Mine is without the vocal E. just Ruben. Cool name isn’t? Is a biblical name, Hebrew for “Tee who sees a son” Ruben was the first son of Israel and a prince of his tribe. Unfortunately he mess up with his father’s wife and lost his rights to be head of the tribe.
“”Anywho”, Tocayo we are here to help, this section of the forum is dedicated to advice, educate, counseling, and assist in any possible way with horse related problems. We count with many knowledgeable people in horsemanship here at pasovice.com and I also hope you can lend us a hand in the educational zone to help others. Take care and God bless.
_________________ The Professional of the bridle
Check all the rest and then come to the best!
Thank's Ruben, Yes, I knew yer name was shared by me, picked that up over on the other forum long time ago. When I first saw yer postings there I thought, "now there's someone I want to discuss training technique with" but have never gotten around to actually doing it because I'm not activly training, life keeps me too busy. But I think things will lighten up before long so I can get back to furthering my horse education by practice. (my last name is Titus, as i understand that was the first name of my grandfather some 12 generations back who came to america from holland, and it got switched to last name by his decendants)
Anyway; Glad you like to talk about my favorate subject.
Everything you've talked about seems an exact parallel of the philosophy and practice I've obtained from the best trainers the world has had to offer in the last 100 years. Men like Bill Dorrance, Ray Hunt, Jack Brainard, Richard Shrake. (western trainers are the one's I'm aquainted with)
Even men like Jessie Beery who we'd call old school trainer, (and many now would curse his seemingly rough methods,) I see through some of his methods that were a bit crude, some of the same principals found in the"new" natural horsemanship ideas. Have to consider his beginnings in the days of horse use for almost everything, he was dealing with horses runied by terrible misshandling and poor training methods.
The one who really got me started understanding how horses think (herd sycology, herd leader manuvers) was Marv Walker, a not so well known trainer who sells his homemade videos very inexpensivly. His method of round pen training I observed being done exactly identical to his instruction by a paso mare with her foal in a small pasture. The owner of the horses was watching and commented "she was teaching her foal to stay with her".
The one thing I've been wanting to discuss with thee is bit's and bridals and their use. Many of the people who ride horses think of the bit as a control device, and if the horse gets out of control a stronger bit is called for.
But I see that as a severe missunderstanding of basic horse handling.
A bit and it's supporting network generally called the bridal is a communication tool and the control is in the mind of the horse.
I see some very excellent trainers going to great lengths in refining their communication skills with just the right bridal and bit. Others who seem to be equally good trainers I see going in the other direction with the equipment, gradually transitioning their cues over to less use of a bridal and then eliminating it entirely, while still maintaining perfect control and suttle command capability. There seem to be advantages in training and communication development on both sides.
Jack tells about a riding school where the riders ride bareback with no bridal while doing all kinds of complicated manuvers, a close observation of the riders observes no visible cues being given.
In contrast I seem to observe some horses being trained with certain bits, and they come to depend on the bit for support, don't gait well without it, or some such thing. Also the bit being used to aid in establishing collection, I guess that's a help, especially after we put a couple hundred lbs on his back and then expect him to do it just like he does it naturally without the weight. Enough for now.
Have any insights on the subject?
Take yer time, don't stay up late just to write this stuff. I do that too often as it tis.
A point of interest; There's a man named Ernie being given dreams of future events soon to happen, some instructions for preperation, also scenes of heaven, and what this earth will be like after it's recreated. in one dream the angel is riding a heavenly horse, in another the angel is riding and brings a second horse for him to ride. Ernie's description of the ride sounds like it's a paso fino, albeit a perfect one with infinate speed, they ride bareback and bridaless.
It's at 4hispeople.com
Hey no problemo! Always a pleasure
Your last name sounds more like Roman to me you know like from Rome. Mine I know it comes from Spain from a province name Salamanca, I learn that trough the internet. There is a new release movie film at Salamanca’s plaza, is about global terrorism, pretty good movie unfortunately I can’t remember the title right now. Anyway, you’ve say something that pops my eyes, of all those famous trainers you have mentioned, I’m familiar with Professor Jesse Beery “The King of horse trainers” as they called.
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Even men like Jessie Beery who we'd call old school trainer, (and many now would curse his seemingly rough methods,) I see through some of his methods that were a bit crude, some of the same principals found in the"new" natural horsemanship ideas. Have to consider his beginnings in the days of horse use for almost everything, he was dealing with horses runied by terrible misshandling and poor training methods.
You’re so right about this! I took his mailing curse and I agree with most of his teaching even knowing they are from the old school as you well say. My favorite is John Lions, I don’t have any of his books but I attend one of his famous symposiums at Tallahassee FL. several years ago. I just love his kind approach to horses but I also like professor Beery’s methods. The only thing with the professor old school is that he teaches to subdue the horse as a prime rule in all his teachings. Lion’s goes in a different direction with more soothing techniques.
Another master trainer I’ve read about and consider a good one to follow is Alois Podhajsky, a former director of the Spanish riding school of Vienna. He is not intense as professor Beery but more methodical and stylish as necessary by the royal Spanish school. His methods are base on the dressage discipline one of my favorites. I’ve learned a few different tames methods and disciplines from different countries like the Western, English, Dressage, Colombian, Puertorican of course, the Australian which I frequently use with new colts… I use it in combination and it’s so more easy-go with horses. There is something new to learn every day about training horses, but I never forget to start any colt with the basics of training.
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The one thing I've been wanting to discuss with thee is bit's and bridals and their use. Many of the people who ride horses think of the bit as a control device, and if the horse gets out of control a stronger bit is called for. But I see that as a severe missunderstanding of basic horse handling. A bit and it's supporting network generally called the bridal is a communication tool and the control is in the mind of the horse.
You’re also right about this; the bit is a communicating device that gives you a lot of control (not all the control) but what really gives you the control is what the horse have learn trough that bit, what it’s fix in his mind. I was at a local tack shop buying some accessories with a friend of mine ad I heard when the owner was selling a couple of bits to a costumer and he said… “this bit is to lift the horses head and this one is to bring it down” At that moment mi friend looks at me like expecting that I can confirm what the tack shop owner say and I told him, “Yes one is to f…… damage the horse mouth and the other is to f…… damage it further more”. I insist that no matter the type of bit you use to start a colt if you use it to bring the head up or down you just missing the point of what the bits are for.
Also, the bit is not as important as the rider use of the bridle, it could be a mild or a severe bit but all is in the rider hands. In the old school in puertorican methods to biting a horse they use to fit a snaffle bit without any reins and let the horse eat all day long with it for a few days. The horse gets so use to it that latter on when the rider use the bit together with the “serreta” in a 4 reins bridle he offers no resistant to the bit, the horse was accepting the bit easily with no hassle. In days is all done in a rush and the results are evidently.
I don’t Know if you have seen when the riders at the shows constantly tug the reins in an up and sharp short motion, specially when the judges are looking. That’s purely to impress those who don’t know better. I’ll let you think on the effects that practice can do to a horse mouth, (think moth sensitiveness). Just yesterday I was offering a tame methods clinic in Juncos, a town in the east south coast of the island to a few trainers and some other pupils… It was surprisingly for me that all of them coincide in the same concept about the bits and their use.
One of them explains to me that he has a collection of more than 300 bits… He was surprise when I explain to him that he can do perfect just with one type of bit. He says to me, “yea but the people it’s impress when they saw so many bits!”. “Ah so is a matter of impressing the people now?” I ask him.., “and what is the one bit you use most?” I ask him again, and he says, “I use one “Poderoso” (an 8” long shank bit with high spoon mouth piece).
“So you have that many but use only one bit?” “and why have to be one so severe?” I ask him… he had no answer, then after a while when I was talking about a different aspect of the tame methods he raises his hand and I point at him to hear what he has to say… “Yea but when the horse start to give me trouble with his head I use some of the other bits I have”.
Then I replay… that’s precisely what I’m here to tell all of you, that you can save the horses from been damage by wrong use of the bit. What’s the point of using one too many bits on a single horse? One bit to damage his mouth, then another one to fix it and then, another one to finish “fixing”? As you can see Ruben this is a big problem these days and we end up with so many good potentially horses lost without proper bit training.
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A point of interest; There's a man named Ernie being given dreams of future events soon to happen, some instructions for preperation, also scenes of heaven, and what this earth will be like after it's recreated. in one dream the angel is riding a heavenly horse, in another the angel is riding and brings a second horse for him to ride. Ernie's description of the ride sounds like it's a paso fino, albeit a perfect one with infinate speed, they ride bareback and bridaless.
It's at 4hispeople.com
I’ll check this link out when time permits, but I tell ya, I’m very skeptical when comes to this things and I fix my mind only to what the bible say. The vision of the 4 riders it’s describe in Revelation chapter 6, although it doesn’t mention nothing like a paso horse, I like to think in the possibility of it. I’m having a blast here chatting with you about trainings techniques Ruben, keep’em coming! See ya latter pal!
_________________ The Professional of the bridle
Check all the rest and then come to the best!
Thanks Ruben, Yes, Jessie Beery's was the first method I studied, a relative gave me a set of his original books from 1908 and I persued it from there. What I see of his ideas in comparason to what we do in a round pen, both are acheving the same results to a certian degree, showing horse I'm his herd boss, so he respects me and is willing to do what I want. But the RP manuvering is doing it more like horses do with each other, done correctly they usually understand it immediatly and respond. Sometimes first response is to blow up and resist, but we can work through that and get them to make the right decision. To do it properly does take some developed ability to read horse language, but anyone who's spent a lot of time around horses should be able to read them correctly unless they've been too unobservant, blind, blank, insensative to their attatudes.
I know, a lot of people try to work a horse in a round pen and don't really know what they're doing. I didn't for a long time untill I finally got the idea how it relates to working the herd social system.
The moment I get near a horse I'm entering his herd, and I'd better quickly assert my position as herd leader or I'll be in danger of being bit, kicked, and shoved into a lesser position.
What I'd like now is a detailed description of proper bridle training, from a horse knowing nothing on up. Especially done with a horse as sensative as paso fino's usually are. With the goal of having a very light touch response. (which I suppose is easier to obtain with a more sensative horse) Has that been written down somewhere? Or perhaps video instruction.
I have some info on it from people like Ray Hunt. He uses a rope halter for a short time and then introduces a snaffle. But dosn't spend much time explaining the details of what response is expected and what to do if the response isn't what we want.
And Pat Parrelli, (one of the most popular current trainers) stresses a progressive cue, starting very light rapidly progressing till a response is obtained, and then instant release.
And the old fella Dorance whos now gone had a favorite saying. "Reward the thought" that is when applying a cue of any kind reward the instant the horse even thinks about responding.
I keep hearing that name Podhajski, but have not obtained any info, does he have much along that line?
I'm not really a detail person in most areas but in some few subjects I like to really dig into the details and get down to precision. Making my own engine parts and horse training are a couple of them.
RT
To do it properly does take some developed ability to read horse language, but anyone who's spent a lot of time around horses should be able to read them correctly unless they've been too unobservant, blind, blank, insensative to their attatudes.
There are a lot of people that owned horses all their lives and still they don’t know how to treat horses properly! Also there are some people that don’t deserve to have horses!
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The moment I get near a horse I'm entering his herd, and I'd better quickly assert my position as herd leader or I'll be in danger of being bit, kicked, and shoved into a lesser position.
I’m totally agree with you on this one tocayo, one respect and love horses but in a round pen with a full-grown stallion you have to immediately show him that you’re the boss or else. If one can’t handle the stallion better to stay in the barn then! It’s not cruelty or abuse but some horses need a slap at the neck base to bring their attention toward yourself and make them realize that you mean business because some horses can smell fear and know how to take advantage of it. I constantly use verbal commands in a laud voice and never back off at the line when dealing with dangerous horses.
There is a saying that goes like this… “There are no problem horses only problem riders”. At certain point it’s true, people mistreat, poor training, cruelty, abuse, neglects and other factors contribute to psychologically trashing the horses mind and even if one rescue these type of horse they have issues, they are dangerous because they are at the defense stage for their experience with their handlers. Then one needs to address this problem and as I usually say; “ahi es que se sabe quien es quien” “there is when you know who is whom” means there is a fine line between been firm and continue the prior form of abuse from the other handler.
It may look like you’re abusing when you use a whip on a horse but all depend on what terms. Whip’s, spurs, bits, serretas, etc. they are only tools to help the trainer in controlling the horse. Those tools are not weapons, as they been use by some wrongly called trainers. If you use the loudly voice command and if necessary, a whip just make sure you use it on a 3 seconds window of time, because if you say “let me go for the whip” and then you use it it’s mistreat and count as an abuse for the horse have no idea why you are punish him for.
In their hierarchy forms they establish the line of supremacy by intimidation they rarely go physical but when they do, they hit hard and strong, so when I use a laud voice and a slap on the base of the neck I mimic their way of establish government on the one horse herd, he is intimidating and as soon as they show the minimal inclination to obey; I apply any source of positive reinforcement to gain their friendship. That’s the psychological tame form. If one tray to whisper at the horse’s ear to make them understand what you want then you’re up for a big surprise. First you have to establish the hierarchy line of command and then immediately reward the horse for his responds accordingly.
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What I'd like now is a detailed description of proper bridle training, from a horse knowing nothing on up. Especially done with a horse as sensative as paso fino's usually are. With the goal of having a very light touch response. (which I suppose is easier to obtain with a more sensative horse) Has that been written down somewhere? Or perhaps video instruction.
What I’m going to do with you if you allow me some tome is to prepare an article on how to biting horses The Professionals’ way. I advance to you what I always say to everyone who wants to bridle train a horse… “Roma no se hizo en un dia”, “Rome wasn’t built in a day” Means that biting a horse takes time and can’t be done overnight.
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keep hearing that name Podhajski, but have not obtained any info, does he have much along that line?
As I said before, Col. Alois podhasky was a former director of the Spanish riding school of Vienna, home of the famous white Lipizzaner stallions whose performance have thrilled audience throughout the world as it’s writing in his book “The Complete Training of Horse and Rider”. He was born in Austro-Hungary and became the director of the Spanish riding school of Vienna in 1939. In World War II he manages to save the horses and with the help of General Patton, keep them under American protection, also according with his book.
If you ask me I will tell you that after read his book completely only once, I find it very instructional in the art of dressage but one have to be real interested for it’s a little boring, that’s because is very methodical. Of all the opinion on which is the right length of the legs of the rider on the stirrups, Col. Podhasky’s is the most assertive. His teachings are in general and only the basics of horse training the old Spanish riding school way. Still I find them very interesting. Hey Ruben, did you have a young colt ready for biting training or you just want to be ready for such occasion? Just curious… See ya later pal!
_________________ The Professional of the bridle
Check all the rest and then come to the best!
It may look like you’re abusing when you use a whip on a horse but all depend on what terms. ]
That's for sure! I have heard people mention the use of a whip as something evil and abusive, (lack of education and going by their feelings) But it's all in the timing wether it's good training or abuse. Kind of like if we spank our child for a disobedience it should have a good effect, done correctly it will gain thier respect and love. spank them on a whim for no reason because we feel like it, it's going to have a bad effect, make them fear us.
We are picking a pecking order battle with an animal much larger and stronger that we are. They use teeth and heels on each other (if milder measures fail) to establish their status, but my teeth and heels don't work very well like that and I'd get hurt if I got that close anyway, so the whip has to be my teeth and heels. But I only need to make contact with it if the horse intends to make contact with me in the wrong way. And of course a fast response is necessary, or he'll forget what it was for.
I was listening in on a conference call with Marv Walker once and he told how he would deal with a very aggressive horse, an attacker, he said he'd put some barrols full of sand in the middle of the round pen as a barrior so when the horse tried to attack he could get away and yet stay with it till he could make the horse back down and accept his leadership position. Fortunatly horses like that are not very commen.
The Professional wrote:
What I’m going to do with you if you allow me some tome is to prepare an article on how to biting horses The Professionals’ way. I advance to you what I always say to everyone who wants to bridle train a horse… “Roma no se hizo en un dia”, “Rome wasn’t built in a day” Means that biting a horse takes time and can’t be done overnight.
That will be great, take all the time needed. I trust the instruction will benefit many who will come here and read it.
I just ordered podhasky's book, a used paperback, I'm sure I'll not find it too boring, can't be any more boring than watching a boring horse show all day, and that's something I enjoy.
I have a few formerly wild mustangs from Nevada, I've only bridal trained one of them just with a snaffle, and she's turned into a somewhat lazy horse, will not scare an insecure rider. Another one waiting on training is a gelding who's kind of insensative and requires a somewhat heavy hand. Of the other 2, one gelding I've done some ground driving with but havn't gone any further, and a mare that's very reluctant to let go of fear, I can walk all around her but not quite touch her without objection. they are kind of middle aged.
As soon as I get a certain car I have repaired and sold I intend to go horse shopping, specifically after paso fino's, I have a couple in mind to look at if they arn't sold before I get there. One of them sounds like is completely untrained and not been handled much.
I need a good riding horse for my long term use, at one time I thought I'd use a mustang for that purpose, but with some age on me and getting aquainted with them, and with paso fino's I decided one of them would be better. And I like the "get up and go" quality of the paso fino. They call it brio. I also have come to prefer for my own use a paso with some length of stride capability, when we head off down the road we want to get somewhere. I have a 3/4 arab with a long stride in the trot I would consider using for a pack horse and do a little traveling that way, need a paso that can match the speed in gait.
Right now I've been getting my years supply of hay cut and the barn refilled, we emptied it just over halfway last winter, a horse is missing and I could stand a replacement. I laid to rest my suffolk draft horse last fall because I could see he wasn't going to survive the winter, he was 26 as best I know, (the vet thought his teeth looked a good bit older than 26, so there's a posibility he was 30 or better) he was the second equine I bought, had him 20 years. The first one was a retired logging mule, a very good one to learn on even though it wasn't planned that way.
Long ago I decided not to raise horses, enough of them around, anyone can do that without much specialized knowlege or skill, and some are doing it who shouldn't be, they just like cute baby horses. I saw a lack of training knowlege in horse people in general and decided that was the area to persue.
In watching horses at shows and events I saw only an occasional horse who is very well trained, responding to light cues instantly and doing so with an attatude of happyness. That's what I want to learn how to create in training. At the small local shows I see a terrible amount of resistance to the bit, and lots of rotten training. Some speed event horses are just about completely uncontrollable, and the people doing it seem to think that's just the way horses are. I don't even like to go to those anymore, gets painful just to see it going on.
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etc. So what makes the difference? The sensitiveness and the acceptance of the bit! So as you can see we’re back to basics here at this point.
